Work Worth Doing

Yeah, send a goal of heavy looking heavy looking.

Alright cool, so both cameras are recording and so is the audio.

Let me just turn this right off.

And then I'll be in room next door if you guys need anything.

That's okay.

Should be fine.

So we're recording now are we?

Yes you are.

Alright I'm just going to do one thing.

How's everyone getting on?

Welcome to...

Just gonna leave that play so that's why I think...

Okay.

So we're live?

We are live.

Good to be here.

Night Dog, I have been very very excited for this and I think it's because every time I
see you and every time I see someone else meet you for the first time their reaction, how

inspired they are, it's very...

It's very humbling for me to see it and I love to see when new people meet you so very
excited for this.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you for inviting me on.

It's good to be able to share my story with other people that may have not heard it yet.

So yeah, thank you.

So getting into Madagascar.

I, in researching for this, have stumbled upon some funny facts.

One of them was that...

Because Madagascar is so remote, 92 % of mammal life there is completely unique.

Endemic, yeah.

Yeah.

Like what sort of shit are you seeing out there?

And that's not just mammal life, this is all flora and fauna, so that's plants as well.

So if you look at the world however many years ago when it was Pangea, when all the
continents were together as one and they slowly drifted apart, Madagascar was stuck

between mainland Africa and what's now India.

And as they drifted apart,

Madagascar became its own island with its own unique ecosystem.

everything that's, most of the animals that are on Madagascar are unique to Madagascar.

So there's a lot of weird bugs, lemurs, chameleons, lots of cool reptiles.

You get some other animals that you find in other parts of the world, crocodiles,
flamingos, stuff like that.

Pigeons, dogs, cats.

But in terms of the unique stuff, yeah, there's a lot of lemurs, especially in the area
that I am.

Black lemurs.

Chameleons, panther chameleons.

And lots of cool marine life as well.

Chameleons are so cool.

Beautiful animal, one of my favorites.

Take me back then to your first trip to Madagascar and I'm really keen to get into what
the Lab charity looks like now and its current form but let's just go back to your first

trip and how this all started.

The origin stories, really.

So my first time in Madagascar was in 2016 and I was there as a volunteer.

As many people do, go volunteering in the early 20s.

The difference with me was that I was already sort of a teacher.

I'd done my teaching apprenticeship in a special needs school up north and in the final
year of that apprenticeship I was saving my money.

was looking to go somewhere abroad, looking to do teaching abroad.

Didn't just want to travel, didn't just want to do gap years, I wanted to teach abroad.

never traveled before never traveled prior to this and didn't really have a plan of where
I wanted to go so just sort of searching on Google I can't remember exactly what I but

something led me to a volunteering website which had many different options many different
countries and I don't know why I Madagascar no prior connections to it nothing nothing

that

that brought me and Madagascar together.

It wasn't a country that I was always obsessed with and that here was my chance.

It was just by chance.

Six months later I was in Madagascar volunteering and that trip itself helped me see
inside the world of nonprofits, how nonprofits work.

I paid a lot of money to volunteer and as did the other volunteers that with me.

They paid a lot of to volunteer and all of them were unsatisfied with the...

with the...

with the organisation that we were with the money was not being used correctly shall we
say if we all paid £2000 there's 15 of us they've got a huge pot of money and then they're

still asking students to come and learn English they're still asking students to pay to
come and learn English with us so sort of saw through the corruption of non -profits right

there and that's what gave me the inspiration to then create Lab and go back out and sort
of do it myself Wow so you went there saw what you just didn't like about the place

and you just felt motivated?

Yeah, not so much what I didn't like about the place but about the organizations who were
working there and what their idea of change was.

know teaching English as a foreign language I didn't really see much of a point in that
but then I would be walking around Madagascar and I'd see all these children with

disabilities after a few months I'm starting to pick up on the languages that we speak so
I speak to the parents and I'm what is life like for people with disabilities here?

Just out of interest, you know this is what I worked in.

when I was in the UK.

What is life like for people with disabilities?

Do they go to school?

Is there a centre?

What is it like for you as parents?

And the same story from every single person was that there's no school, no facilities and
because of that there's no welfare state either so the parents are forced to look after

the child, the child goes nowhere.

The parents can't work because they're looking after the child but they receive no welfare
for this.

All of these problems related to the disability really meant that lot of families with a
child with disability were in

And then with the non -for -profit that you were in, that was specifically just teaching
English, it wasn't necessarily to do with disabilities or anything No, nothing to do with

disabilities, it was teaching English and some people were doing forest conservation, some
people were doing marine conservation, but it wasn't...

it was...

it was volunteerism.

You know, was more for us as foreigners going over to Madagascar than it was for the
Malagasy people.

And that's what I saw straight through.

You know, many people would go there for photos for the insta with the little children and
leave, you know, but I wanted to look behind that.

wanted to, yeah, people on the gap year and voluntourism, you know, it's the name of the
industry, you know, it's a huge industry.

But I wanted to look behind that and buy a creating lab, something that...

would genuinely connect people from the UK or from Europe that have got skills and work in
this area already, connecting that with the needs of projects, mainly in the CB

Madagascar.

So in 2016 then, if I'm not mistaken, that's the year we're out here and you go to this,
you feel like, okay, this isn't right, something's not right here.

And then you also have these conversations at the same time.

What happens then?

Is this something that you then go home and take with you or is this something you act on
then?

How does it all unfold from there?

So there was...

It was like a melting pot, you know, it was all these ingredients in one and I couldn't
quite get the right recipe for what I wanted to cook with it.

So it was my first time travelling, my first time going to a country like Madagascar, my
first time teaching abroad.

All of these things and then also the corruption of this organisation that I was
volunteering with.

The skills that I learnt whilst volunteering with this organisation, because I almost sort
of...

stage the mutiny with all the other volunteers.

You know, I went to the manager of the organisation and said, look, this isn't right.

We've all paid a lot of money.

We don't see it going anywhere.

And now you're asking our students to pay to come online with us.

You're profiting from both sides.

So that was the fire that started.

And I just couldn't quite get all the ingredients together.

know, I'm just thinking, well, I want to travel.

I want to teach.

I want to be able to do my sports.

I want to be in these countries.

I've seen Madagascar, I've seen that these organisations are working there and they're not
effective in what they're doing.

And they're asking money of people to come and learn English.

And then they're asking money of people to come and teach English.

I'm just seeing like this is, they're almost being exploited in a way.

And seeing like what the needs were educationally from somebody who already has a
teacher's background, three years experience in teaching already.

All of these ingredients in one.

and then just one night in my bed it came to me, it's like why not a non -profit
organisation?

Your own non -profit organisation that you register with other teachers so it's
effectively monitored and you'll work back in Madagascar and other countries as well

eventually but the main focus on Madagascar not teaching English necessarily, that might
be something on the side but working to address some of the main issues that relate to

poverty and education here in Madagascar.

So this is 2016 then, is obviously, know, 2016 is long time ago.

It is now.

Yeah.

It is now.

So what happens between there and now, we're in 2024, that's eight years ago.

take us through what happened between then and now and how did we get to where we are now.

Such a long time but it can now be condensed into just a couple of minutes.

So 2017 is when I actually got the registration for LAB.

So when I did the volunteering it was the end of 2016, sort of final quarter of 2016.

So early 2017 is when I'm having all of these thoughts, you know, I've just come back from
Madagascar and want...

I want to teach, I want to work abroad, I want to support this island in Madagascar
especially I want to be a competition almost to this other non -profit that was working

there that wound me up and annoyed me and that I could see right through.

So finally got the papers for registration of Lab in 2017 officially a non -profit
organisation in the UK and I was like right now it's a non -profit money's going to start

flowing in.

and it didn't work across the area of cause and

My overall mission was to create this centre for people with disabilities in NUSSB.

That was the principal mission of the organisation.

And I've posted it on my social medias, you know, I've got a few hundred people following
me, a few hundred friends on Facebook, thought, money's gonna fly in.

Of course it doesn't, you know, like, I look at my own behaviour when donating to
charities, you you're reluctant.

You want to see people with a track record.

So that was my first big wake up call.

You know, my background's in teaching.

I'm not a businessman by any means.

I just thought, you know, like, had the idea and the mentality if you build it, they will
come.

No, they won't.

You know, you've got to prove that your venue is worth coming to once it's been built.

You've touched on something that's, like, anyone who has started their own business or
started their own venture, that is the biggest thing that trips people up is your own

expectations.

You just think everything.

it's gonna work out and sometimes you just need that wake up call.

But I'm kind of grateful for those times, you know, like the money not coming in when I
first put out a fundraiser.

The money not just automatically coming in from friends and family and then it gets shared
around on Facebook and people think, yeah I'll give £20, you know, and I'm thinking, well

by the end of the year we might be able to raise £10 ,000 and be able to set up this
project and be running a centre for the next two years, blah blah.

It doesn't happen like that.

But I'm kind grateful for that because it gives you an appreciation of the funds that you
do raise and maybe if you relate that to business, first sale that you make, if you make

ten cold calls and none of them work and the eleventh you get that sale, it feels so much
nicer than if you just make that first one and...

and it comes through.

You know, like now I realise the value of a donated pound.

You know, it's very hard to get people to donate with them, donate the money.

And I want to prove that what I'm doing is worthwhile.

So it's been years of building that reputation to get people to donate.

So my first step, what I did in 2017, after realising that I couldn't get any donors, was
to take out a loan in my own name.

Well, it's all paid off now, so I'll maybe tell the truth on camera.

name of Mrs.

Nathan Stapler and that's what got me the loan approval.

Why Mrs.?

I just kept writing applications for Mr.

Nathan Stapler, he got rejected and then that affects your credits to go.

I think it was a mistake that I clicked Mrs.

then I just kept getting through to the next round in the loan application.

I thought I'm not going to change it.

Just because you're a married woman by the name of Nathan.

Wow.

Incredible right.

So yeah, I took all that loan in my own name.

And with the aim of paying that back over the next three years.

How much was it?

£7 ,500 if I remember right, to pay back about £9 ,500 over three years.

that was to finance me returning to Madagascar, renting out these facilities to do, to
work with people with special needs, to do little bit of English as a foreign language

crash courses.

to get to and from these countries obviously to survive within these countries and to
create like projects you know under my own under the name of lab under the name of learn

achieve become the non -profit that I've created under this name to to sort of build a
reputation and then to show people in the future if you are going to donate this is what

you're donating towards and it's also really a test for me are you really dedicated to
this game somebody that if you don't have that much money in the bank like I never did you

know as a teacher and an apprentice and just

been volunteering and travelling, you know I don't have any money in the bank.

How much did you have?

100, 200 pounds, know.

And was any of this money that you sourced, was any of it to pay you?

No, no, I wasn't thinking of a salary, you know, I wasn't thinking of, you know, okay,
I'll take this much from me, this, you know, I budgeted a project and I so dead set on it,

you know, it's like the salary didn't mean anything, as long as I was to stay alive, you
know, through it.

I wasn't thinking about, well, how much is going to be my cut of the cake, how much is for
this.

It's more about, this is the project.

If I make it through this project, you know, going to pay, it'll pay my flights and stuff
out there and it'll pay my accommodation whilst I'm living out there.

But I'm not going to come back with a wedge of money in the pocket.

You know, I took out a loan to do this.

I financed it out with my own loan that I've just taken.

It's very much not about you.

That's what's so beautiful about this.

And that's why what I said earlier, everybody gets moved by your story, man.

because it's so outside yourself.

It's amazing.

I'm very humbled when I hear people give feedback to me.

But yeah, it's nice to reflect upon the previous years and to talk about this story
because now when it's been running and now that it is running and now that I do get a

small salary, it's nice to look back on that and think I did make the right decisions in
going for that leap of faith and how that's played out now in 2024 and now that we do have

a school running.

centre for people with disabilities up and running and we do have all these other
projects.

It was worth me getting in that debt.

I paid it off, you know, like I feel the same way when I think about...

the early days of my business and even speaking it in the same light as yours feels like
an insult almost but I do remember back to days when it was just really shit really hard I

questioned it I was like hang on a minute what's going on it's really rough isn't it worth
it you know like everyone doubting you you don't see the results you don't see the results

the results seem so far away but when you stick it out

you can look back on those days very proudly.

Yeah, persistence pays.

So I know then you had a bit of a gap for a while between around 2018 and then things got
stalled a bit and then COVID obviously happens and puts another spanner in the works.

Bring us up to speed around after COVID and what starts happening around then and where
are you at at that point?

Yeah, so, wrong 2018.

was back in Madagascar for brief period of time and I really sort of made the idea then in
Madagascar.

Built a team of teachers, built a team of staff, met a lot of children with disabilities
and we really decided our mission for all of us, our overriding mission, we're going to

create the first.

Center not so much a school, you know, it can be for adults as well But Center for
education work skills and training for people with disabilities in Nussey B in Madagascar.

That's our overriding mission and With that I've got a little bit of experience from the
previous two projects that I financed myself, know with this loan So we could get some

donations not too many though right now.

I'm financing an idea I'm saying people you give us money.

This is what we're going to do again.

This is another lesson I learned that's you

It's a lot harder to get financed for an idea than it is to keep something up and running.

To get that money for the idea, you've got to have people believe in you.

So again fundraising was slow.

had a mission of £15 ,000 to raise and that would cover the running costs of our school
for one year.

We were looking at almost like a miracle to be able to get the school built and we were
looking at other people that would be able to do that for us but we were focusing on

raising enough money to run the school.

running costs.

£15 ,000 was our intention.

From late 2019 to

get that money and that involves a lot of things you know that involved me moving to China
to raise my own you know to to work in a school there to get a good salary yeah and

different meetings across different points of the UK you know sometimes driving home empty
-handed

But all of that just to get this 15 ,000 pounds, it comes to late 2019, we've struck a
deal with an organization that we're going to donate some land, a government organization

in Madagascar.

And then another organization that we're looking at just covering the simple building
costs.

So it wasn't going to be a fancy building, but it was going to be, we'd have our land,
we'd have a little wooden building to work out of.

And this would be the disability center.

And as time went on, we'd be able to expand it.

Early 2020 comes around, pandemic, Madagascar.

closed all the way through till 2022 and you know it seems as though the dream is dead you
know it doesn't seem doesn't seem completely dead but there's very little hope you know

I'm clutching at straws you know I'm making Skype phone calls to all the parents I'm
saying one day I will be back I promise you you know like the parents of the kids parents

of our students and then all of the teachers that

would form the cooperative with as well.

You know, I'd speak to them regularly and say, okay, we're going to do like a visit today
to different families, you know, if you wouldn't mind doing that.

But you know, the pandemic made it difficult as well.

You don't want to be adding to that in Madagascar.

That made things very difficult, but at the same time, my sole focus wasn't just on
Madagascar, but some small other projects that I was...

know, testing as well, testing the waters with as well.

Because my vision for LAB isn't just Madagascar, it's worldwide, but starting in with
Madagascar.

So what happens then after that?

The pandemic has finished, you're hopeless, as you put it, and things are seeming less
certain.

How did you go from there to where you are now?

Yeah, pandemic slows down.

You know, like what was once sort of a fire that seems roaring is now just on its embers.

You know, it's my job to get that fire roaring again and you know, really make the, make
people believe, make myself believe as well that this centre will one day open.

So 2022, I went back to Madagascar after four years.

People were shocked to see me, you know, it was like a rumour that I was...

it back on this island of Nasibi.

Because it's a small island right?

Well Madagascar itself is huge, bigger than the UK, but the island that I work on is
called Nasibi in the north west, very beautiful island and about 70 ,000 people there and

people do know, you know, if you've been there long enough.

people people know your face people know your name people know your mission and then yet
rumors were circulating that all you have seen a finish with a skateboarder and he's back

and then we arranged a meeting for everybody and said look this is my

this is what i when i was speaking to you in two thousand eighteen we came up with this
idea it wasn't a lie this is what i want to dedicate my life towards you know i'll love

left it all i was never a multi -millionaire but you know i left it all behind in the uk
and all these other countries where where life might have been slightly easier for me to

do this and

This is the other mission of my life and I showed the parents that this is what we're
going to do.

again the embers now start small fire roaring.

I'm trying to recontact all these people from the promise to donate the land and promise
to build the centre.

get in touch with all these people again and finally get a meeting with the organisation
that promised to give us the land, you know they've got lots of land that they don't use

anymore and they give it sometimes for social projects.

Had a meeting with the guy.

He didn't seem too keen on it as he did a couple years ago.

And then I got an email from him one day, he's like, yeah, we don't do these projects.

We don't give land anymore.

If we give land, we sell it.

I was like, right.

So the whole thing, the to zero.

late 2022.

Back to zero.

After 2016, you're over.

It's now 2022.

Yeah.

And the whole thing gets pulled.

Yeah, pretty much.

Pretty much.

know, like the idea of what...

The whole thing didn't get pulled.

the idea of what I thought it was going to be got pulled.

And that led me to readjust my mindset.

For a couple of weeks I'm out there in Madagascar thinking like, well what is the point?

What is my new strategy?

How are we going to open this centre?

This takes a lot of money to buy land.

and it takes a lot of to build a centre.

Huge amount of money to do this.

How are we going to do it, you know, if we've got 15 ,000 pounds?

It can go a long way in Madagascar, but it can't buy you land and build you a school.

That's your running costs.

And that's your running costs as well.

So if we did use that money on that, how are we going to run the place?

I remember speaking to you in those days.

was and is a testament to your resolve.

You were there.

You were there when I actually got the email itself that said, we're not interested in
giving the land.

Yeah.

I was flying back to Madagascar the day after that.

Yeah.

I'm thinking, right, so how long am going to wait this?

Yeah.

And, know, for a guy, obviously for anyone who doesn't know you, you are...

always smiling, always upbeat and always determined, whether it's in your endeavors in
Madagascar, whether it's when you're on your skateboard, you're always very determined.

And I saw that zapped from you at that point.

Truly, was hard to see you like that.

How did you bounce back?

Well, it's all so...

I was disappointed at that time but I could not imagine my life without doing this.

This was the overriding mission of my life.

know, so it's a setback more so than a killer, you know, something that cuts off the
mission right there.

It was more of a setback.

That's how I was to look at it.

reframe my mentality, okay this isn't happening but we're still going to push forward.

We got to our own Christmas time and I was thinking okay so maybe we'll rent a facility, a
place that already exists we'll rent it.

Looking at all these places, old car washes, know none of them were good old restaurants
and you've got to think as well for people with disabilities.

There's certain things for accessibility that doesn't exist in Madagascar generally.

And then places like car washes and restaurants.

Not ideal as a school educational setting.

And it was Christmas Eve in 2022 and I was up this sort of hill.

looking it was like a good viewpoint and I'm thinking like what are we going to do for
2020, how are we going to get this place open and I'm looking around looking down from

this hill and I see this old school that I'd volunteered at the first time I went in 2016
I'd spent a bit time volunteering at the school and it was an agricultural school and it

was in the forest and it quite hidden so that's why I hadn't been back there and I thought
what about that place you know

beautiful little beautiful school and I've not heard anything about it in years you know I
kept my finger on the pulse of the island saw what was going on but I'd heard nothing

about this place so that sort of respite the fire in me

and christmas day for the not visible on christmas day but what's in there i went to went
to visit this building you know how does it look you know said people are in there is it

still school like a television band and i'm like that be people like a bit of you see in a
school that's abandoned you know it's like a miserable metaphor for me i was the the best

news that i could see it you know the more the perfect visual for me this place is
abandoned we're gonna rent this found the landlord started speaking with him we struck up

a

a deal of a year and so that was in January of 2023 so yeah struck up a deal that lasted
just until this July just gone to rent that facility and then boom all of sudden back on

yeah it's not just back on it's happening now called up all the parents called up all the
teachers and said we've got a place looks ideal we've got a contract ready to go we can

sign this we can open the centre it can be up and running I just want you all I just want
all of your approval

loved it right in the forest back wasn't perfect but we made do with it and yeah the life
I needed at point yeah from seeing from seeming as though it wouldn't happen to all of a

sudden not just that it will happen it is happening right now and yeah great feeling you
know it moved very quickly forward after a big setback and sometimes you just need to just

stick it out and you will probably be like not far off a lifeline again persistence pays
you know if it really is your

passion and if it really is your calling and what you love and something that you really
are willing to dedicate all this time and all this energy and all and your life towards

then then

What's strong enough to make you give up?

You know, there's nothing that would make me give up on this mission.

Like, I feel this is my life mission.

And now that the school and the centre has been opened, it doesn't end there.

You know, it only continues from there.

But my...

It was a huge chapter in my life to be able to open this.

Not just for myself, but for everybody involved.

You know, the parents, the students, the teachers, the community, everybody involved.

It's a huge chapter for this and it only goes on from there.

How many students are there?

We've got 42 students enrolled at the moment and we also have a programme for all the
parents.

So all the parents are involved in a cooperative and they all work at the centre.

Because we all eat together, we all have our school dinners together, so the parents are
involved in cooking with some of the older students.

So it's like it's not your typical school facility.

It's sort of refor of how we were going to run the centre and how we were going to...

make sure that all parties are involved, from the parents to the students to the teachers
and to the community and that it all works in synergy.

Yeah.

If I was listening to this, right, and I hadn't been to this place, and fortunately I have
and this is where we met all those years ago, but if I wasn't there, it's hard to quite

grasp just what your day to day looks like and where it is.

Could you just maybe describe the setting where that school is?

And then I think another thing people might not be considering here is that they don't
speak native English in Madagascar.

They speak French best, right?

Or...

Some people speak French.

Some people speak French and then everyone speaks Malagasy, right?

So like, what's it actually like there for you running this now that it's up to speed
and...

Yeah, so the day by day, what might seem mundane to me now.

Yeah, is alien to someone they see.

So just maybe if you could explain Yeah, so the setting of Nusibirg, it's a smallish
island.

I wouldn't know what to compare it to, but we've got about 21 kilometres from north to
south and about 15 from east to west.

Tropical, beautiful, very green waterfalls, white sand beaches, and then a few towns and
lots of villages across this island.

Obviously in this island they speak a dialect of Malagasy.

Malagasy itself as a language has got 18 different dialects.

So the dialect of the south is completely different to the north where I am.

So the dialect that I've learnt is unique to Nasi Be and a region in the north of
Madagascar.

So a regular day for me at the centre.

I want to be one of first to arrive at the centre, always.

Set up for the day, plan what we're going to do.

Students would arrive one by one in tuk -tuks.

We didn't have a school bus as we started.

Thankfully we do now.

Yeah, tuk tuks full of students would arrive sometimes, eight, nine, ten students in a tuk
tuk, just making do of what we could.

So yeah, three or four tuk tuks full of eight, nine, ten students at all, pouring out with
parents and stuff, two or three parents per day.

And as all students arrive, say the most important thing that we do at the centre is play,
free play.

Play teaches so many skills, not just educationally but socially as well.

Turn taking, sharing, all these things are learnt through play and you can really see what
a child is about if you just watch them free play.

So we have a huge focus on play at the centre and that's what we do every morning as
students are arriving.

When the final tuk tuk arrives, when all the students of the day there, we OK we've got 10
more minutes of free play then we'll do an introduction.

After the free play it's the introduction so I've got a little traditional My Legacy hat
and everyone's lined up and we're all sat in a line and I'll ask everyone how was your

day, how was your night last night, how was your weekend, how was your mum, is everybody
okay, any news and then I'll go by one by one individually of each student.

How are you, you feeling good?

Yeah, cool, today we're gonna do this.

Each student just so...

I'll stay up to date with them and just so they've had a little bit of one on one time
with me as the lead teacher.

From there we'll go into an educational activity.

It might be reading, writing, number work, something even related to sports but always an
educational activity.

We might have a theme of the day or a theme of the week and relate that to all of them.

Two different teachers taking off two different groups, a slightly more advanced group and
a group that are less able and we do all that.

They do their different educational tasks.

Then we come together again at lunch time.

We all eat.

Some of the older students have helped prep with the lunch as part of a life skill.

They're doing that alongside two or three parents.

know, so the parents get a salary for the work.

We all eat at lunch time.

We all eat together.

The afternoon, certain students will help with washing up.

Afternoons are always free as well.

Free play, free fun, sports.

Do that until about 3 .30, 4 o 'clock in its home time.

Wow.

Sounds very beautiful when I say it like that, but there's lots of little stresses
throughout the day.

Even just the image, and I think this will give anyone who's listening an idea of eight
kids arriving in a tuk tuk on a tropical island, tiny island in Maniganscare, and you're

there helping them to play.

I think...

This is why I am so moved by your story because on the surface, right, if I hear a non
-for -profit and I hear of, you know, doing your work in Madagascar, of course I'm

instantly quite moved by that, that fact alone.

But when I actually think about your day -to -day versus mine or versus someone's
listening.

Like the micro.

The little things you're doing.

And you know what?

The difference that you're making to those kids' lives.

Because before there was nothing, right?

There was no nothing on that of our students had spent 10,

15 years at home.

Not leaving the village, sometimes not leaving the garden.

Amazing, amazing.

And so you've got the parents who are working with you as well and you're employing them
which is, box ticked on this mission you're on.

What's it like managing people in a different language?

How do you manage people?

We're all on the same page, that's the great thing about it.

We are all on the same page at the centre.

It all feels like a family and bringing in the parents, you know.

it helps us as much as helps them as well.

You know, we get to know the students a little bit better.

The parents might say, no, doesn't eat shellfish, you know, can't, he's got an allergy.

We now know this.

You know, like this is a country where none of these sort of records would exist prior to
that.

Managing people in a different language, one thing I would say is that people are all the
same.

You know, what makes people...

What makes people happy in in Iceland might make the same people happy in rural Australia
You know like there's very people are more similar than they are different despite the

language and the words that I say in a different language I might be saying the same type
of thing as what I'd say if I was speaking in English and in terms of managing people

There's been one story that comes to mind when the centre was quite new, only been open a
few months.

And we'd had somebody that was really, really wanting to work with us for a long time, for
years prior to this.

And as soon as we opened up the centre, she just came in with a bit too much of an
aggressive tone and a bit too strict and wanted it to be a very military style.

way that we run the center not the bad not the fire at all and everybody said the same
thing from students or don't like that said other teachers like she's too strong to

parents like like my mother this place of close down if she says here so i had to make a
decision and speak speak with her and so i invited around one saturday and i said look we

need to talk about about you the way that you've been at work invited around one saturday
and

I always thought of myself as not somebody that's very good at telling off.

Maybe as in a teaching role, know, like adult to adult, you know, thought I maybe
struggled with that.

But this is different, you know, this is like my passion, this is something that if it was
due to close down due to her behaviours, you know, where does my life go from there?

So I sat down with her and this just came off the top of my head.

I didn't plan to say this, I didn't write down as it would go out and I said, look, showed
her some photos on my phone and I this is where was in July of last year and it was of

that really great summer that we had.

Spent a lot of time with you here in London.

Mexico.

Mexico.

skateboarding and surfing, that's all I was doing really, skateboarding and surfing,
barbecues with friends and stuff, none of this teaching, none of the teaching stuff,

nothing professional.

I was a bum for a little bit, you know, and it's nice to look back on times like that.

And I was smiling as I was showing these photos of the people that I was with and the
people that spending a lot of time with.

And then I said, this was my life before I was here.

It's really quite nice looking at these photos now.

And I look back on these photos with such a smile, as you could see, I'm not as happy as I
was talking about this.

And I said, there's one reason as to why I left all of this, and I'll do it a million
times again.

The one reason as to why I left all of this was to be here and to open this centre.

And you've been with us for years, you've known the struggles, you've known what it's
like, and now it's open.

don't let this fall.

You know, and it hit home with her.

Really hit home with her.

For the next few weeks her behaviour was...

she changed.

She was like the rest of the teachers.

Fun, playful, interactive.

Then she slowly slipped back into strict military style so eventually we let her go.

I think that captures just how...

much it means to you and how much sacrifice you've made.

you left all that behind and yeah, mean for somebody to come in and jeopardise that.

Yeah, potentially jeopardise it.

No, thank you.

One of the things that I'm sure a lot of people are thinking of right now because the
majority of people who are listening to this will be coming from...

let's say they have jobs in tech, they might be working in some sort of corporate capacity
and I certainly know a lot of people want to live a life with a lot more purpose, okay?

And that can mean many different things to many different people.

But alongside purpose...

It's hard for a lot of people to imagine doing it without being paid or having some sort
financial stability.

And you've very openly said, like, look, I'm not getting paid a whole lot of money.

I'm not, I never have had much money.

You said you had a hundred quid in your pocket at one point.

Like, how do you manage the psychological sort of opportunity cost of, let's say, not
having a job where you get money?

Like, how do you get by knowing that when, I mean, I just know,

I know how people's minds might jump to and might be just, well, how am I supposed Well,
it sounds nice, but how does he live?

Yeah.

And stuff and that.

And my first way of thinking is...

Most people that make all this huge amounts of money, millionaires, billionaires, they
want to live the life that I'm living.

You know, like my bank account may show that I'm a poor person, but my day -to -day really
is, probably one of the wealthiest people alive, you know, in terms of day -to -day.

You know, like, but my bank account wouldn't show that.

That is my bank account wouldn't reflect that.

What keeps me going, because obviously it does cross my mind, I'm not completely, erm...

immune to how the world works.

We need a salary, need funds, we need money to be able to keep ourselves going, not just
for now but to look forward to the future and to give ourselves a chance of prosperity in

the future.

That's only just started happening for me in the last 18 months where I've managed to get
salary now from my work at lab.

Prior to that I was always balancing online work and...

little part -time jobs here and there.

Just anything to keep the money in for me whilst I can keep lava flow.

But over the last 18 months I'm very grateful now to be on a salary.

It wouldn't keep me here in London but you know my life, I spend most of my life in
Madagascar or between Madagascar and Guatemala where we've got another project right now.

I'm quite a simple person, know, like my biggest expenses are really skateboards and stuff
like that if we're looking at recurring expenses.

I don't have a big need for many different things.

What is my overriding passion is the work that I'm doing and that's all intertwined.

I do have a small salary and as I say I do think about my future.

Would I ever be able to afford a house in the UK?

Probably not.

Does that bother me?

Not so much.

You know, like I look around at many of my friends from the same region that I'm from and
their position is not too different to mine.

Financially, it's just our day -to -day lives are worlds apart.

And I mean, if you think about the different side of it where you're, let's say you are
financially stable, quote unquote stable, but you're just doing something that...

eat your soul away.

And you said that you loved what you said about being not necessarily financially rich but
inside the wealthiest man in the world.

the inverse of that...

is a scary idea.

Yeah, all the money in the world but not a shred of satisfaction.

can't speak too much from that end because I've always looked at the world from a
different perspective and I'll always look at the people that are working in, I don't know

how an office works, how 9 to 5 really works.

monday to friday basis and these people that do take on huge sums of money but you really
not got that satisfaction lots of people create charities once they've already got rich

you know they'll sell the companies and then create a foundation and do it in the later
years i've sort gone the other way started off poor created a non -profit and remained

poor man it's erm

just the thought, and this is one of the reasons why I've actually started this,
because...

I was in sales for a long time and I just found, yeah, was getting like, was getting a few
bob.

I was getting paid like good money, know, I just didn't care about the thing itself.

Like it's, so many nice things that go with it and do not get me wrong.

Being financially comfortable and being afforded options, it's definitely a good thing and
it's nothing negative to strive towards.

It's okay to try and...

you know, leverage yourself and get yourself into a better financial position.

But I think at the doing so at the cost of your own internal wealth, the way you put it, I
love that.

It's just for me, it's just not, I don't want to do that anymore.

And that's why I set up this.

And that's why I want to speak to people like you, because even though I know you, even
though we've had this discussion in varying ways and not quite to the same detail, it's

still moving.

It's still moving to hear that from you.

and I'm just very confident that people who are listening are going to be moved by that.

But you mentioned as well, just bringing it back to the schools and the other projects.

You mentioned in Guatemala, outside, when you're not in Madagascar, you might go to
Guatemala.

What's happening there?

So, over the years, I've piloted many sort of small projects, worked in Kenya, done little
things in China, little things in Morocco, different countries in Central America, Costa

Rica, Nicaragua, and sort of toyed with projects.

They're all...

decent projects but I couldn't really see anything permanent in them.

then discussing with friends over towards the end of last year, the centre's open, the
charity has a decent income now that keeps it afloat, there's enough money available to

create another small project.

What could that project be?

And if we want to make it permanent, we want it to be something effective.

Something that reflects

our mission as an organisation as well.

education, free sports.

working to support those that often don't get support, know, like people with
disabilities.

In Madagascar also we support children that are out of school, some of them working in
rock mines, some of them working in rural villages.

We've got this sort of program that is called Fianna Rantzica in Malagasy, which means our
education, and this is working with children that don't go to school.

We've got two teachers that go to these different communities, two times a week, fixed
times, so it's like every Tuesday at 2 .30 they'll go to

this rock mine.

All the children there can go and learn for free for two hours, two times a week.

So they get four hours of free education per week, just learning to read and write.

I wanted to take that model and apply that to another place.

I applied that to Guatemala by Lake Atitlan, town called Santiago.

Now I went there in 2021 and in Santiago the people weren't speaking Spanish so much.

They were speaking this language I couldn't understand a single word of.

This language is called sotojil.

it's a language of Mayan origin, ancient language that's still spoken across, well really
just in this town that sits on Lake Atitlan in Guatemala.

And 2021 I was speaking with these children and said, what language are you speaking?

And it was these children that were selling stuff, fridge magnets and stuff on the road
and I said, Suu Tuheel, my parents speak Suu Tuheel.

I was like, can you write it for me?

You know, I want to see, cause there's a lot of like...

clicks and pauses and I wanted to see how it would look as a written language.

None of these students, none of these children could read or write in this language.

They could speak it but couldn't read and write and I thought well maybe this is like,
this is a unique and rare language that may die off in a couple of generations if literacy

isn't been focused on.

And then obviously there's these children in this town that don't go to school that are
spending the day selling these magnets or whatever it may be.

and we need to think of a project that supports them, also supports the Suthuhi language
without also, I'm not a fan of going in there and interfering.

Say you should be going to school, shouldn't be selling these magnets, you never know the
backstory.

But if I can just offer a platform for free education, five hours a week for these
children.

that focuses on Sutuhil, this language, well as Spanish, literacy, numeracy, basic skills,
and that gives people a good platform, a good base level of education.

So the Esquilita project is in two communities around Santiago.

We've got our teacher Mariano, super dedicated guy, amazing teacher.

Two times a week he goes to one community, two times a week he goes to another.

Free education, both of these times, reading and writing in Sutuhil, but we'll also do
other activities.

music, arts, cultural activities to bring in other students and then that connects
students that go to school with students that don't go to school and really the focus is

on literacy in Sutilhila in Spanish as well as cultural activities.

So that's what's going on in Guatemala that's been going since January of this year up
till now and yeah that's looking like it could be time.

I'm just laughing because...

You find it funny.

Even though I know you.

It's it's mind blowing to me just how much everything you do is outside you.

You're not driven by anything other than helping people.

And I think everyone can take on some of that into their own world and you we'd all be
living in a better world, right?

We talked a lot about purpose.

and how purpose has been the embers that have been going out and then they've been lit
back on for you and then you've gone and just created this thing when all hope was gone

and it's because of the purpose, it's because of what it was rather than what you were
going to get for it and that seems to be, and I know it was for me too until I feel like

what I'm doing now feels like that for me, but for a lot of people that seems to be the
missing component.

Purpose, the thing that they really care about and have and are dedicated to.

and are willing to sacrifice for it.

How would you say for someone who doesn't have that, how could they surface it or uncover
it?

Well purpose doesn't necessarily need to be a charitable act.

know it's just what would you do if you were, it's a typical question you know, if you did
have all the money in the world how would you spend your days?

And most people do that with charity.

You look at Oprah Winfrey and all these other people that build schools and have a
foundation.

You all these people that make money but maybe the purpose

doesn't feel fulfilled.

It always tends to charity.

know, like, it doesn't mean that charity is the answer.

Some people might, you know, what fulfills everybody on a day -to -day basis?

If you did have all the money in the world, how would you spend your time?

Like, what would you do with it?

And then would you be able to make that work in the real world that we've got around you
now?

If it is playing golf, well...

look at becoming a golf coach you might take a fifty percent reduction in salary but is
that internal wealth would that be a lot stronger for you you know like your purpose

really defines what would you do if you were just given a credit card that had no limit
what would you really do yeah you can buy this buy that but eventually that's just not

going to feel like anything what would you really do that would

feel like a mission you know feel like because it is almost like business you know you've
got to contact all these people but with a with a with a nice ending it seems like the

The here is when it's something of service in some way.

If it's setting up a non -for -profit in the middle of nowhere, or if it's teaching
somebody how to improve their backswing and golf.

Yeah, maybe that is, maybe service is purpose.

And I think in having a purpose, now this is a little bit deep, but I think in having a
purpose that is outside yourself, you inevitably help yourself anyway.

Like it's kind of subtly this selfish act in a way.

Yeah.

Cause you get, you get this good feeling.

about yourself because you're doing it for everyone else.

Yeah.

It's this double S.

Yeah, I would agree with that 100%.

Some people, you know, like you'll...

Some people drag the story out of me about the charity and they'll be so selfless and I
say I'm kind of a little bit selfish.

It makes me feel good as well, you know, like it's not the reason as to why I'm doing it,
but I don't leave it feeling like, man, I can't wait till I retire.

Yeah.

You know, I'm not like that at all.

So just running this off, okay, you've told this amazing story about how you've

gotten from a hopeless point and even before that to how it started to a hopeless point to
then get into school and the danger potentially might be like okay I've got it here now

I'm at this point like where do you go from here what's like your next sort of what's in
the crosshairs for you?

Like I referenced earlier it's a lot harder to get funding and people to support an idea
than it is to for them to support a concept that exists already.

Now the centre exists already people have

seen it and people have seen the results and that brings in lot of funding and lot of eyes
and a lot of people that are impressed with this.

I'd only hope that our mission continues on the same path.

What I've made is like a blueprint for working with people with disabilities in
Madagascar.

That can be replicated in other parts of Madagascar.

The model that we use at the Sunrise Centre.

That is not unique to Nasibi, that could be implemented anywhere.

Where you focus on the parents, have a cooperative of parents, the play -based learning
for students which transitions into life skills, all alongside the parents and the sort of

teaching styles.

This could be made as a model and this could be replicated in other parts.

Same with what I said about the Fianna L 'Antica in Madagascar, working with children that
are in rock mines or in rural communities, sending teachers to them rather than sending

them to school.

sending teachers to them to get them to a basic level of education.

That's the same thing that we do for Esquilit in Guatemala.

These are models that can be replicated in different, different places.

I had an idea the other night.

I've not sat down and typed it up yet.

You first want to hear it, but school in a bag.

So the idea of school that could reach children that don't go to school typically.

might be street children or rural communities but again sending teachers to these
facilities with a bag that might have like a pop -up tent, pop -up gazebo you know that

would serve as like a school for three hours a day.

That's an idea that just had the other day.

You know I'm always full of these ideas that I'd love to keep pursuing and seeking funding
for.

It sounds like that's what you would do with the unlimited credit card.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So I think anyone, and this is one of the main reasons I wanted to get you on, is because
anyone who hears your story is instantly moved by it and instantly wants to support you

because...

You are just out there truly walking the walk, my friend.

There's a lot of people who talk that, I love that word, volunteerism, I never heard that,
but that captures something that isn't quite as definitely well -intentioned, but it's not

quite as authentic as what you're doing, and quite as littered with sacrifice as what
you're doing is.

Like you're truly sacrificing yourself for this cause.

And I know a lot of people listening will definitely want to support you in some way,
whether it's throwing you a cup of coffee in a donation or even reaching out and

connecting with you.

Just tell people where they can find you and how they can help support what you're So
maybe in the bio or in the description, whatever you're listening to this on, there should

be a link to our website for donations.

And then also just my email address and WhatsApp number.

I'm happy to share that out.

If anybody wants to get in touch, if I've said anything that inspires people think, well,
I'd quite

If it's a teacher for example, wants to do a pen pal programme with our centre in
Madagascar, fully open for that.

If it's a business that want to work with us that might need...

might want to do a fundraiser for a non -profit open to that as well.

We're not a huge organisation, we're not quite UNICEF, you know all these emails that go
to me, we don't have an administration team, it's an organ...

so if you do have something specific, I've briefly mentioned the children that work in the
rock mines, do the education for, if you'd like to learn more about that, send me an

email, it all goes through me.

And we've had it before with connections of ours who've reached out to their work, explain
what

you do and you've got a five grand donation.

thousand pounds, five thousand pounds, huge.

So if even two or three people who are listening somehow pulled that off it would make a
massive difference.

amount, let's just say, you know it's, yeah.

Even at the very least I just really encourage everyone to go and follow me on Instagram,
Lab Charity and Lab Nathan.

you're doing amazing work brother.

Thank you.

I really appreciate you.

I get the sense this might not be the last time you come on.

Maybe not.

Maybe not, who knows.

But I really appreciated this chat man.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you for having me on.

It's been a pleasure.

It's nice to talk about these things in such a timeline often.

So yeah, thank you for having me on.

Sounds good brother.

We did it.

Good chap.

Nice man.

That was sick.

Good chap.

How do you feel about that?

Yeah, good man.

I we got through...

should we hit it?

Imagine they just started pressing record there.

Nice one, that's full hour, they didn't even start it like that.

Yeah, I was kind keeping an eye on that in the background.

one.

Didn't feel like that, I thought we were running about quite a bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that felt good, man.

I it felt like we...

I was kind of...

At beginning we went through just the journey quite a lot and I was wondering, was like,
hmm, are we spending too much time on the journey part?

Should we get into specifics about Madagascar so people understand what it is that we are
working towards?

people maybe aren't so interested in Madagascar but more interested in the...

In the journey, yeah.

Maybe that's what's most helpful.

you know, like...

Yeah, yeah.

But I think that was great, man.

Honestly, I think that's gonna sound good.

Same with us on the mic.

Okay, I don't want to press anything on that just in case.

Let him know we're Fucking hell.

you

Yesterday's better,

Yeah, camera still recording.

I'm gonna get a photo of you just sat across from me.

Do you to just jump in there again?

look all smiley and happy.