#28 - How to Sell Offers People Actually Buy - Biliana Stoyanova
Alright. What's the row? And ready with you. Alright. So you have great content on LinkedIn.
Dean:Thank you. I will start by saying that. And one I have a lot of, like, snippets that I want to get into and like unpack. The first one is that you said 99% of my clients are petrified of selling. Why is that?
Billiana:Comes in few steps. I don't want to say mistakes people make, it's steps. And the first most important step is that they're not yet sold on their own value. People don't even think about before I go into sales call, I need to be clear and sell to myself what I'm planning to sell to people. The first step they're petrified is because they're not sure what they're going to talk about, what their real value is.
Billiana:They don't yet believe in the results they deliver. The second reason is because they think I have to sell when in fact you're going there to build a partnership and solve someone's problem consequently you're not there to take their money You're there to help them make their life easier. So it's that little mindset shift that makes it scary. I'm going to sell. I need to pitch.
Billiana:It's not that. And then step three is don't talk. Just listen. The whole reason you're there is to help them solve a problem by you going there and telling them everything you know, every framework, every step, every part of your process that yes, you are selling but first you need to listen to them, understand their problem, and then with your service or what you're offering, you diagnose and then it becomes consultative. You're there to help them.
Billiana:You sell less, you solve more, you win big and everyone's happy.
Dean:Yeah, it's like you, you know, one of the things you said there about coming to the table and like word vomiting at them. Why is that like that's naturally something we all do? Think, like you said, it's probably because we're nervous. It's probably because we don't maybe have the belief or the results in what we bring to the table. And I'm experiencing that with people I'm coaching right now as well, conviction that okay, I am justifiably asking, in exchange for my value, someone's money.
Dean:And I've experienced that myself with my, you know, being in sales for a long time. I think the more you realize what you are providing and how much value it has, your conviction just goes up, doesn't it?
Billiana:Conviction is the key word. Love that word. Conviction is so important. Conviction defines a lot of things. It defines your confidence and defines your price point as well.
Billiana:If you have conviction in what you're selling, people will buy from you. And it's just so easy. It does take practice, But at the same time, it's really understanding. You know what, it's funny, I say to a lot of people when you start your own business or when you start coaching or whatever service you offer, it's a lot like therapy, you need to invest so much into understanding yourself.
Dean:I've said this, yeah.
Billiana:Finding where your gaps are, but it's literally ongoing therapy and mindset work and confidence or let's say introverted people, which I am actually and a lot of people are surprised when they tell them that, but I've acknowledged it, I don't see it as a problem. So for you to build that conviction, you need to go through your little therapy process and then sales become easy because you don't, you're not there to persuade people. Think probably that's where the problem comes with sales. Everyone thinks I need to persuade someone. I need to force them to buy something.
Billiana:It's not that.
Dean:I think to anyone who's not done sales, they think that. However, I think if you've done any sort of selling either for a company or for your own business, whereby you've provided value for somebody for longer periods, and you've gotten out of that phase of oh, shit, am I manipulating them? Am I taking something from their pocket into mine? You build that up over time and maybe tell me if you feel otherwise. But I think that only happens to people in, let's say, maybe their first six months, maybe their first year when they are probably starting.
Dean:Do you find that? Or do you think it still happens when they're? Do you work with people who are like two years in and they're still like saying, Oh, shit, I can't ask for money, it's like bothering me.
Billiana:My clients who are two years in or more, I don't even tell them to go on sales calls. Right. We build their systems and content and lead magnets in a way that they sell unless it's a high ticket. When it's high ticket, there there is a need for some type of sales call. But essentially, when it's early days, I tell everyone, if you're just starting, if you're new, go on as many sales calls as possible.
Billiana:Don't even label them that, label them research. If something comes out of it, great. But you don't know your client at the beginning, you don't know yourself. So take as many calls as possible. Yes, be nervous, make mistakes, perfectly fine.
Billiana:It's a discovery call for the client and it's a discovery call for yourself.
Dean:What do you think is like the most or maybe one of the most important things you can do to prep for one of those sales calls Or maybe during, like, is one of the most important things you're focusing on when you get on with someone?
Billiana:Two steps. Do as much research as possible to find out who you're speaking to. You have to you have to control the conversation. I've had I listened to a lot of scripts and recordings for clients and how their calls have gone. A lot of them are not really well prepared.
Billiana:They go on the call thinking,
Dean:let
Billiana:me ask them the questions and clients leads, they don't really know what they need. They roughly know they have a problem. They don't know the solution. So you're there to help them unpack it even more, but you have to be prepared. And then if you have multiple offers or depending on what you offer, have an idea roughly of where you want to guide them.
Billiana:When you've done the research, you would have noticed where they need help. Because let's take me for example, Most of my clients come to me because they think they need content help. They don't need content help. They need messaging help. They need positioning help.
Billiana:They need to work on their offers because it's all connected. But a lot of people think it's content. And when I go and see their content, I can see it's a positioning problem, for example. So you have to do the research and find out how you need to unpack further their issues on that call.
Dean:I wanna dig into that word positioning.
Billiana:Let's go.
Dean:What do you mean when you say positioning?
Billiana:Now, I'm glad you asked this because I normally try not to use this word and the way I've simplified it for my clients when I work with them and even when I present my offers, I have built a method around Authority Zone. So with my clients, what I do first thing is when they need positioning help is okay, let's look at, let's do an authority audit for you. What is the authority audit? Authority audit is what results do you drive? What transformations can you provide?
Billiana:What's your background or what are you currently doing to start building authority in the field that you want to be into? And that feeds into positioning but it makes it so much more simple and typically the way I'll do it with them is I would give them five questions that they need to finish which is I specialize in my results are soft results, hard results that they've achieved. And from there, we start building the picture.
Dean:Okay. Let's say I was a little step back than that. Right. Because we could go we could go deep on sales, sales calls, how you prepare, how you open and frame the call, how you do your discovery, and so on and so on. But let's imagine I'm before all of that, and I don't even have an offer because we've talked about the word offer.
Dean:Right. And that's like a buzzword these days. And it but to me, I actually like it because it's a very concise way of explaining that part of the whole process. But I actually speak to many people who say like, what's an offer? You know, and it's actually fair, like, it's actually not a dumb or silly question at all.
Dean:So what is that?
Billiana:What is an offer?
Dean:Yeah.
Billiana:An offer is your service, but because there's so many ways to present it in the digital space, it could be one to one, it could be group coaching, it could be a course, It could be a paid webinar. There's so many ways to present the service you deliver and how you deliver it. That to me personally, the label for it is offer. Yeah. What is the thing that you offer and the thing that will make you money?
Billiana:That's your offer.
Dean:What is it you do for someone?
Billiana:Exactly.
Dean:Okay. And can my offer change over time? Can it develop?
Billiana:55% to be exact.
Dean:It has to.
Billiana:It has to. Look, there is so much work you can do at the beginning to define what you want to do, how you want to serve clients. But the reality is until you start, you don't know. You don't know what work you want to do actually. That's my first hand experience.
Billiana:And you don't know what the clients want. So you can start with a small offer to test the waters and then you can build onto It's good to have a signature offer and build some experience in it rather than and it's a mistake I made and it's a mistake I prevent a lot of my clients making is having 1,000,000 offers customizing everything, making everything bespoke and constantly implementing things. It's good to start with one signature thing and build out your value ladder and your offer suite from there.
Dean:Yeah, the way I'm kind of thinking about my offer at the moment is I'm kind of just doing it in a way that's more of me in your business. So I coach the guys with their business, with their offer, with their sales and eventually with their automation.
Billiana:And
Dean:the way I've structured it is like, okay, at this offer, I've called it momentum. You can have like weekly calls, it's more of a group structure, it's less touch points. And then you've got the next tier up, which is the same thing. It's me being involved in your business. It's a bit of handholding.
Dean:It's a bit of guidance. It's a bit of structure, but just more of it, more of me in your business. And that's how I've been kind of thinking about that. But going back to what you said, I didn't start with that. That that's to your point, like that was something that I did over time through speaking to people and understanding what they actually want, because I came in with these grandiose ideas.
Dean:I was like, oh, well, I know this is what they're going to want. Absolutely. This is the solution to all their problems. And it's not, you know, and and it's very subtle what actually the changes you have to make. It's not it's not like I flipped everything on its head.
Dean:Like it is still kind of the same, but it's just the way you provide it to somebody is it's so subtle how you can change that.
Billiana:Yes. And you said two things that really liked here. Many things you like to specifically. So that's another part of the offer. The offer is yes, what you deliver, how you make money, but it's also how you communicate it.
Billiana:That's really important. And when you build it and communicate it, you said that's what they want. And that is very, very important because many offers go wrong because people communicate what people need and it gets very complicated, they get very overwhelmed. Normally the best way I like to explain it is I'm really into supplements. Love my supplements.
Billiana:I take a palm for every day. Don't go I don't go buying, I don't know, magnesium, right? I want better sleep, so I go and buy that. And a lot of offers go wrong because they say this is magnesium. No, you need to say you sleep better.
Dean:Yes.
Billiana:And that's what they want. But people will tell them you need magnesium And that's where offers get really, really strong. When you said the word is being overused, I completely agree. And it's being overused with a no brainer offer. Everyone builds a no brainer offer.
Billiana:It's no brainer to you because you're in the thick of it and you do it every day and you know what's the process? The person on the other side, they want the destination. They don't want every single step that you're going to take them through. They don't don't want it to sound complicated.
Dean:Well, offer, right? The offer is the wording of the offer is inherently about you, right? It's about you, the provider of the offer. It's like, here's what I give you, here's what you get this per week, this per month, this per day, when in reality, to your point, that person doesn't want the magnesium, they want the outcome of the magnesium. They want the fucking sleep that it gives them.
Dean:Yeah. Or in my case, they want the financial freedom that it gives them.
Billiana:And
Dean:I think you're right, that's not very often the default way for people to communicate their offer.
Billiana:Exactly. And that's why there is confusion between offers is about the payoff. That's it. People will choose you when you clearly show them what's the payoff of them investing their money in it. Yeah.
Billiana:Simple.
Dean:Yeah. It's so subtle, isn't it? It's so subtle the way you can just change it because one's about you, one's about them. One of my directors when I was in, I worked in a lot of tech companies And honestly, as much as I hated it, like I was very unfulfilled in this, like, had incredibly intelligent people around me that gave me a lot of wisdom that I still carry with me a lot of wisdom. And I would definitely not have been able to build my business without all of the nuggets and the approaches and the methodologies and so on and so on.
Dean:And but one of the things that my director used to say is that you need to speak in the language of the customer, the things that they're saying, the things that they are caring about, not what you care about, not what you bring to the table, what they give a shit about.
Billiana:That's exactly it. And that's also when content comes into play as well. Why some content does better than other content, why some accounts are growing better than other accounts. It's because of that language and people know how to speak to their audience. And one thing many don't realize actually from facts
Dean:My last happens to fall
Billiana:on here. Sorry.
Dean:No. Go on. Sorry.
Billiana:When we when we start building offers, when we start doing our content, when we start thinking our business, how we're going to deliver our service, we keep thinking about our audience and who we're selling it to. And so frequently we forget that we are probably still that person or not long ago we were that person. We have gone through what you're selling right now. You're their ones, right? What I'm selling now, I was their ones.
Billiana:Many people, even mindset coaching, leadership coaching. Many of these people have been there or are currently there and they complicate offers, content, sales calls, everything by thinking they're selling to someone completely different. If they look again, therapy time, if you look inwards, you'll find a lot of answers.
Dean:Yeah, for like when I think about what you just said there in relation to the guys I'm working with, like they I see myself in every one of them. Mhmm. Mhmm. One of them. And I see them go through the same deeper things that I went through and to the tune of my confidence.
Dean:You know, like people talk about business and passive income and chilling in Bali and all that shit, right? It's great. But like my confidence, my self esteem, the way I carried myself, those things are the often less spoken about side effects of putting yourself out there, eating shit for a while and pulling something off. And I just agree. It's like the deeper level, and I can see myself in them.
Dean:And yeah, I think doesn't that make you like uniquely more positioned to like sell that offer then? Cause it's yours, it's your journey as well. If you've done it, if you've been where your customers have been, and if you are where they want to get to.
Billiana:Definitely. Definitely. You're better at selling it and people connect with it more if you show them and you say I was there once. Part of when I go on live webinars and when I speak to people, I tell them, I've got a little module that I show them actually.
Dean:Oh, yeah? What is it?
Billiana:It's it's a framework from an American coach, which I absolutely love. It's called the four value four levels of value.
Dean:Oh, yeah. Let's get into that.
Billiana:Oh, it's so good.
Dean:Go on. Yeah. Let's do it.
Billiana:Four levels. And it's I've I've decorated it with a few bits of my own.
Dean:Yeah. Yeah.
Billiana:Sprinkles. I've upgraded it. Yeah. It's about income and what you invest at each level. First level, you implement.
Billiana:Mhmm. Your the maximum you can earn there is minimum to $80. Okay. Because you're in the thick of it. You have to implement all the work, think copywriting thing, social media managers, content creation.
Dean:Okay.
Billiana:The second level is unification. So, and this is actually also applicable to the corporate world and employment as well as self employment.
Dean:Right.
Billiana:The second level is unification. So that's where you're more of a manager or you start thinking about running an agency, which is a huge training solopreneur world at the moment, but it's not easy. Your overheads are higher. You're still in it. You're still putting muscle.
Billiana:You're still investing time. The earning potential there was something like $40 to $250. And then you have communication level three, imagination level four. Communication is salespeople, coaching, imagination. I'm not going to go into it.
Billiana:It's it could be productized digital products and things like that. It could be SpaceX. It is imagination stage. Uncapped at level four, level three, you can make millions.
Dean:Okay.
Billiana:But with each one, you also bring more value to clients and you have more time freed.
Dean:And
Billiana:I always take my my my clients through this and I show them where do you want to be and what are you actually doing. Which to me was a wake up call because when I started, I started at communication level three. Well, my story is I I started from a hundred grand salary to a zero salary whereas most people start with a small salary and they grow. Mine was the complete unconventional way of amazing job, amazing salary, amazing commission, fabulous go back to zero, why not?
Dean:Yeah.
Billiana:But when I went back to zero, I thought I'll start level three because that's what I've been doing, that's what I'm good at, that's where my experience is. And I went down to level one.
Dean:I can relate. I did the same.
Billiana:And I was in the thick of it for my clients delivery, I was implementing so many things, always on course during so many.
Dean:Stressing.
Billiana:Yes. And then in my business as well, and I was sitting there pulling my hair out, I'll make 5 to $10 1 month and then two, three months it might be a zero. So where am I going wrong? So it it's really important how you start and what you're actually doing or how you're going to get out of this hole, which I did. I found the way.
Dean:Well done. Well done. Yeah, so much like so much to like so many areas I could go down off the back of that. I think one of the things I think is super important to ask yourself early, and I do this with my guys as well as like, you know, like, where are you trying to go? What what you actually want?
Dean:Because what you what I can safely assume most people don't want is more hours work, more stress, annoying clients. And you laugh at that one and and less freedom. Like, why do we do anything that we do job related, whether it's your own business, or whether it's working for a company, you do it for money. And why do you do it for the money? Well, because what the money buys you, and when you have more money and less output needed to get the money, that equals freedom.
Dean:And that's what a business gets you. And that's what a job inherently doesn't get you. And I think asking yourself at what level of freedom do you like? What is that freedom to you? It's such an important question because I see so many people all the time just like stress and and like and I like like it's part of the path.
Dean:Like you do have to go and eat shit for a while, but it gets better. It does. At least for me it did.
Billiana:It does. But you need to need to make it better. It won't get better on its own.
Dean:No one's coming to save you.
Billiana:No one. No one. Yes, it's is hard at the beginning. But a lot of people think and I like what you said about, you know, why you're actually doing it. Many new clients that jump on board with me, I ask them, what's your vision?
Billiana:Where do you want to be? Why are doing this? And I answers like, I wanna make a hundred grand.
Dean:Yeah, why?
Billiana:And this is many people think this is my goal and this is as far as my goal goal goes. And I blame social media for this narrative. As much as I love social media, there were so many toxic. I don't even I didn't want to say it, but there's so many toxic narratives that confuse people. And I've been there.
Billiana:I've I've had points where I was like, this is my goal, but why? And I like how you build up the why. I do a similar thing. Why is that your goal?
Dean:Yeah, what's good
Billiana:about 100?
Dean:Yeah, is it, why not? It's not that it's like a bad thing, but why is it good to you?
Billiana:And what will it give you? Because we all have different goals.
Dean:What do you want it for? What are going do with that? What are going do with that?
Billiana:Sit on it for your whole life.
Dean:Great. Enjoy. Enjoy looking at that for your whole life. What are you going to spend it on? What do want to do that you can't currently do?
Dean:Because I think we have this, oh my god, I have a banger for you here. Right? So I was in Egypt, and I spent most of the winter there, and I met a lot of characters. Now there was this one character in a restaurant, and he's always giving me a lot of little nuggets of wisdom when he was serving me coffee and everything like that. We got along really well.
Dean:And he was like, he just dropped a banger to me one day. He was like, Dean, money is one of those strange things that we do only two things with when we get it. When we get it, we either keep it or we try and get more.
Billiana:I spend it.
Dean:He wasn't talking about you.
Billiana:Oh, okay.
Dean:Well, I could relate to that because like, I've often had a scarcity mindset about money. And I think I've always tried to historically tried to hoard it. Almost unbeknownst to myself, I think it was subconsciously, just like from a fearful place, I think. My mindset has totally changed with it now. And I, I actually get I love spending it now on things.
Dean:I'm like, yes, I actually, I'm going to drop a lot of money on this thing that I really am interested in, or like develop a new skill or something like that. Can't remember why I was talking about money there. It's yeah, I think our relationship with it, like why you want that level, like why is that level important? Like what does that level equal for you is is a question. Do your clients like do your clients like not go that layer deeper?
Dean:Do you make them?
Billiana:I make them.
Dean:Yeah.
Billiana:I ask them why at least three times. So we build the picture because that also defines your offers. Yeah. Go to that word. It defines your offers, it defines your business model, it defines the way you're going to work.
Billiana:Mhmm. And what's your For instance, if someone is new, they have just left or they're thinking about leaving their job and they want to start. And let's be real, probably a lot of people will be thinking about coaching in some shape or form because it's quite low barrier and I see many people trying to go fractional or something if they're coming from corporate and they're a more senior level.
Dean:You
Billiana:need to know what your goals are. Do you want more family time? Do you want to travel? And work towards it, but don't start a course. That's my top advice for everyone because many people come out of their job that speak to me at least and they say, I want to do a course.
Billiana:I was the same actually. I was thinking I need to do a course. That was my first thing. I actually bought a course on creating courses. Page, it was probably $500.
Dean:You tend to be paranoid scammy. I'm really joking.
Billiana:It might have been. No. No. But it wasn't it wasn't sell our course. It was more like how to
Dean:Yeah. Yeah.
Billiana:Yeah. Structure, how to film, what to say, and all of that. I probably it was, let's say, I don't know, seven modules.
Dean:Mhmm.
Billiana:I've watched each episode or whatever you wanna call it was ten, fifteen minutes. I've watched three and I didn't go any further. Because as I was doing it and as as I started building my business, I realized it's not a time for a course. I don't know what I'm really selling yet. Mhmm.
Billiana:I don't know who my clients are. What do they Why would I invest so much time into creating something that there is no point? Don't create courses to start with. Go out, speak to people. Yeah.
Billiana:Find yourself, find your clients. You will have to pivot. There will be little pivots, big or little pivots along the way. By investing so much in a course and let's be real to sell a course, you need volume, you need an audience or you need a budget paid social, it won't sell itself. And, yeah, the the the course thing is is for later on.
Dean:Yeah. Yeah. You can't do that when you don't
Billiana:Yeah.
Dean:Have any sort of audience or knowledge of them. Know, you haven't spoken to them, you haven't served them or like done anything for them such that you can provide a repertoire of knowledge, you that you need to get on the phone with people.
Billiana:%.
Dean:We've done a lot of sales and I want to get into branding and content and authority building.
Billiana:Let's go.
Dean:Yes. Shifting gears slightly here because one of the things my laptop's dead there. One of the quotes that I pulled from one of your posts was that your authority, I think you said, is built 80% of your authority or your selling should be done before the sales call through your content.
Billiana:Can
Dean:you talk a little bit about that?
Billiana:It it roughly circles back to what I mentioned earlier about the authority audit audit and authority zone. When you let's let's use as as a social platform, let's say let's use LinkedIn for for this example. When you are, for example, I'm a marketing and sales coach. Someone might be looking for a marketing and sales coach. They'll search me in the search bar and then a thousand of us will come up.
Billiana:Then they'll come to my profile, look at my content and this is where people go wrong. Many people sell an industry. So they'll be talking about marketing is great. Mhmm. Sales are great.
Dean:Mhmm.
Billiana:You build authority by talking real examples, real life experiences. How did you reach a certain conclusion or result or how how did you take your client from A to Z? That's when you start building authority and that's where your content starts making a difference. Otherwise, you're providing what Google and ChatGPT can provide. And no one sees why you're different.
Billiana:So when you come up in these thousands of results and someone comes to your content, they'll look at another or or let's say not even through it, that if someone, if I come up on someone's feed, whatever way they reach my content, if it's generic personal branding is amazing, this is how it changed my life. Great. Change your life. How is it going to change my life? And if I choose to work with you, why are the best person to help me do that?
Billiana:So authority building content is real life content. It's no longer about your authority zone is what result do you drive. The content is how do you drive that result.
Dean:So you explain like what has occurred with like a b or c scenario or clients? Exactly. Is that what you mean?
Billiana:Yeah. It doesn't have to be clients even it could be your own experience.
Dean:It could
Billiana:be it could even be one sentence. It's not to say that every single post you share needs to be a case study. You could still talk about framework but throw in one sentence that says I reached this this conclusion or I made this framework or came up with this method because or this works for my clients because show how you are relevant to it and it's not just a chat GPT search.
Dean:Oh God, those the chat GBT ness of LinkedIn is kind of comical. And I say that as a guy who does actually use chat GBC to refine my posts. And then maybe just like grammatically help me out sometimes or whatever. But like, I don't know, sometimes I scroll through LinkedIn, and I'm like, come on, like, you know, dash? Oh my gosh.
Billiana:You know, the dash.
Dean:I'm like, you see, just delete that
Billiana:and choke a comma in there. Yeah. I mean, the dash.
Dean:I feel disrespected when I see that dash. I feel like like they've given me a middle finger.
Billiana:I agree with you. I think it's it's a little bit lazy. By all means, I do encourage people to use A. I. In whatever way they say fit for them.
Billiana:But it's also this is content that you you are writing, you're showing your expertise with it. Yes. Maybe use chat GPT to ideate or refine the final touches, whatever it might be. But the dash also annoys me big time. Oh my.
Billiana:And it just gives me copy paste vibe.
Dean:Take three seconds to get the dash
Billiana:out. Yeah. But also it's probably for some people it's, transparency.
Dean:Yeah. They're kinda saying, look, I don't. Yeah, you know, yeah, I know. Yeah, that's the other end, isn't it? It's like, I don't know if this person's oblivious or just like, bullish.
Billiana:Yeah.
Dean:Anyway, on branding, like it's
Billiana:humans branding humans or branding.
Dean:With content specifically, because you know, be honest with you, Bilyana, like my content historically has been something that I felt was a gap in my, you know, overall business. And I think something you said there, might look kind light bulb went off in my head was that I'm not doing enough of the authority building where
Billiana:you have such a great story to tell.
Dean:Thank you. I should tell it more, shouldn't I have a lot of good things to pull and call upon that I could just say, but I'm just not saying them. And I think that's something that I miss. And then it's something that I'm going to focus on. Yeah, were you always like, how did you learn that?
Billiana:Okay. So it goes to my pivots in my business.
Dean:Oh, go on.
Billiana:Originally when I started, I was doing one thing which was more around consultancy, influencer marketing and building strategies around that with strategies around that with SMEs mostly. The second stage and it all it all built up because it was like, I'm doing the influencer marketing stuff, but I'm really digging deep into their commercial objectives and who they are and what they're doing so we can build a bigger picture for the influencers and whoever's on the other side. And then it was mostly Instagram. So I was like, okay, maybe my angle is more of an Instagram strategy thing. Gradually, I started getting more individuals as clients as well opposed to SMEs only.
Billiana:And I realized my passion is mostly working with individuals, solopreneurs. And with them, I was I was digging deep again and it wasn't just about, you know, a post. It was what's the bigger picture? What are we seeing here? How are we connecting with people?
Billiana:And now I'm fully well, I'm platform agnostic. So I see content as a byproduct of who you are, what's your message, what you're selling, what's your authority, how are you making people feel and everything else. If you have that lined up, content is easy. People think they struggle with content because they can't come up with a hook or they don't know how to form up their post. Yeah.
Billiana:That's not the problem with content. The problem is actually that you don't know what you're saying.
Dean:Yeah. That's so true.
Billiana:So true. You can have the best hook ever if the rest of your post and your message is shit. So what if you had the great hook? So what if someone clicked on it and read it, they'll scroll right past, you won't get a like, you won't get a comment, you won't get a follow, you won't get a lead, you won't get a client.
Dean:Because you actually do get a lot of engagement on your LinkedIn posts. I saw that. You do very well on LinkedIn. That seems to be like the better one for you. And yeah, one of the things you said there was like, you can have a good hook.
Dean:But if the rest of your content doesn't really make sense, the post forget about it, forget about that post. And I actually remember there was one time I put out a LinkedIn post, and I remember like, I thought I smashed it. I thought this post was fucking sick. And I chucked it out. And it was about someone I knew who had been in a job and they were miserable, getting paid loads of loads of money, like loads of money, but just hated it.
Dean:They were crying and blah, blah, And I was basically saying the point I was trying to make was that, you know, someone in that scenario can free themselves from those shackles with two years of work, you know, to build a business, you know, if you really get stuck in, won't have to be subject to like a really miserable existence like that. That's what I meant. But I didn't I didn't communicate it. I didn't communicate it well. And so people read the post and they're like, what?
Billiana:It happens to the best of us. I was like, oh, fuck. Does happen. It happens. But you have to take the learning and be quick with it.
Billiana:And and that's the other thing with authority. One of the important things is when you when you want to use content as a tool to get leads and clients, you need to simplify things so much because people are buying into your expertise. They don't know what you're really doing. You're using that content to pull them in. So how simple and there is this thing about, you know, writing five grader language.
Billiana:It's not so much about the words and the language that you use. It's about how you make complex things simple. I get so many DMs. I actually got an email yesterday with a brand partnership offer and it did say you make complicated things so simple and it's true. One of the one of the mistakes I made in my early days is I'll talk about marketing strategy and I'll talk about marketing strategy and I'll talk about this and I'll talk about that in ways that I thought were easy to understand, which they could have been, but people didn't see these things as a problem.
Billiana:They didn't realize and even now if tomorrow I write a post about positioning not many people will understand it. But if I say your content is not working because your authority zone or your authority content or your content is not converting because people don't see you as the go to expert. So for me, for example, that that is part of my tagline, become the go to expert. Become the expert everyone seeks actually. So when I talk, when I simplify it to them and what is positioning positioning is people want you to be you want to be seen by people as the go to expert, right?
Dean:Yeah. When they think this, your face appears.
Billiana:Yeah. Yeah. So that is positioning and that's why earlier I said I try not to use that word and I really try because it doesn't resonate with people. People might understand it, they might not. But those who understand it, does it stick with them and does it seem as a priority in in the problems to solve?
Billiana:Because I want to solve that problem. How do I simplify it?
Dean:Okay, so let's say let's just imagine you're building a piece of content right now. Gave you the laptop and you're like, I was like, make me some content, one piece. How do you think about that? Are you trying to deliver like one specific point and you're trying to unravel that and communicate that maybe in a nice simple way, as you said, or do you have different types of content is one authority and maybe one storytelling? Or how do you think about the let's say the format of each one or what's what's in your mind at the very beginning?
Billiana:Always one point.
Dean:Yeah.
Billiana:Then one key takeaway that's that's, you know, even let's let's take this as an example. On my way here, I was thinking how I'm going to create a post about this.
Dean:Right? Yeah.
Billiana:And in my head was about, you know, this is my first podcast. I I was structuring the post of my head. This is my first podcast. Great. Amazing.
Billiana:But also, we are connected and this happened because of LinkedIn.
Dean:True. Yeah. Yeah. I was stalking you for some tips.
Billiana:You were in the right place. And then I thought, actually, that's a bigger point. And I don't want I don't want to mention the two. Yeah. One is great.
Billiana:You know, this is my first podcast and people love a personal story. But what comes as bigger importance is the power of LinkedIn and that, and I actually talk about that a lot. It's not just about leads, it's not just about business, it's about expanding your network and meeting like minded people, not always with commercial benefits, just people to hang out with and bounce ideas and grow together. So in my head, it was like, I don't want to put both. It needs to be one.
Billiana:Which one is it? The power of LinkedIn. So one key thing. And then top tip, in the comments, I might pin an extra comment. I don't know if you've noticed when I do that.
Billiana:I have the post and then I might add another common tool, two or three with something a bit more personal.
Dean:Interesting. Right.
Billiana:Okay. Interesting. Key learning and this is for the masses and those people which are more your community and people who want to know more about you, you can include something personal. I even put pictures of what I've cooked the night before. Anyone who says, LinkedIn is not Facebook.
Billiana:No, it's not. But there is a slight element when you're building a community and relationships of showing something personal. So at the bottom, I'll probably put this was my first podcast. Okay.
Dean:So the point is gonna be the power of LinkedIn then and then first podcast as the
Billiana:Yeah. And then I might include some other tips of how I felt or what I did and how I prepped and how many times I was like, Dean, what are the questions?
Dean:Yeah, nice. Okay, that's actually useful tip. And because because of some feedback I got from, you know, and some sometimes people would deconstruct a post that I did when I asked them, and they would say, you're actually saying two or three different things without even kind of realizing it's actually if you look at the top half, bottom half, they're kind of just two different points. Even though it's in the same realm, even though it's it doesn't look like you veered off actually at glance. And I think that's what I am working on actively to deliver something that someone who's fucking around on their phone can just look at me like, Oh, yeah, nice one.
Dean:Move on. Like, hopefully.
Billiana:Yeah, that's the that's the magic formula. Your hook tells them what's to come. You need to have a really strong last sentence. That's the key takeaway. That's a very punchy memorable phrase.
Billiana:And in the middle, you know, you can say a few things. For example, let's say, you know, if let's make it easy and go back to the example of I can talk about the power of LinkedIn. I can say three points. For example, it connected me with Dean. It connected me.
Billiana:I was out with another three people that I met on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago. I had the Best Friday.
Dean:Brilliant.
Billiana:Going to an event in another country in a couple of weeks to meet some other LinkedIn people. So I could say all of that. But still it's LinkedIn is so powerful. It's not the podcast. Do do you see what I mean?
Billiana:I do. It's easy to mix it up. You can have three, four things that you list as listicles, but still there's one key takeaway.
Dean:Do you know, like I'm going to shift over to, you know, like if you think about LinkedIn, right? There's a lot of people like you and I who help people to grow their first business.
Billiana:And
Dean:in that space, you have people who mentor people and coach people and provide a service to someone. And you also have a lot of people who sell courses passively to people. So it's just like bank of information, have it no fulfillment, you don't speak to me, you buy my information. And for a lot of people, they don't quite realize like the shit that they have to eat along the way to make this happen, to make it work, to actually have free time and freedom and everything like that. And I actually have another thing that you've said, which was do what you love and you'll never work a day Lie.
Dean:Yes.
Billiana:I remember that post. It was it's been probably a couple of months since I shared it. I said that's the biggest lie we're told.
Dean:Mhmm.
Billiana:Because it's true. Mhmm. Because we see it literally. Right? They say, do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
Billiana:And it creates this unicorns and butterflies picture where, you know, everything is easy and you wake happy and you're like skipping along and everything's a dream, but that's not the case. Yeah. There are ups, there are downs. Yes. You step into it with different energy, which is the important thing because you're doing what you love.
Billiana:So there is a different energy than having to drag yourself to an office that you hate or having to work with a boss that you you don't get on with or having some pain in the bum clients. Now I'm choosing my clients and I have fired clients. I have said no to clients just before we are about to close because I didn't feel the energy. So you do get better energy, you do get more fulfillment, but it's not never working a day in your life. It's hard work.
Billiana:It's hard work. And even if you're selling courses, you still, for example, need to create content all the time. Or if you are serving clients one to one that's to work and you we all have feelings, we all have emotions, sometimes we feel 100%, sometimes we feel 10%. It's work. Yeah, like I
Dean:think it's just what actually actually is. It's not like you'll never work a day in your life. It's just that you'll be able to choose when you work. You can restructure your life around your work and not the other way around.
Billiana:Best case scenario. But sometimes there are exactly on those days that you choose not to work, you might have to fall back on discipline and go and do that thing that you need to do.
Dean:Oh, my God. Also the curse, you know, sometimes especially the position I'm in there where I have both businesses and, you know, you know, work worth doing like I'm doing here is like tracking really well. I've got my other property business parade like that's doing its thing. Like, I've got a great team of hired really well. And, you know, sometimes I wake up and I'm like, fuck, I just I just leave the laptop over there.
Dean:You know, I'm not feeling that which is a blessing and which also has its downsides as well in, you know, when it comes to my progress. But I think not working a day in your life is a bit misleading. I think you maybe a better way of putting it might be you will work in a lot of days in your life and you will eventually get to take more time off at some point in the future when you've systemized everything.
Billiana:Absolutely. And it's also the fulfillment. Does. It does. And yes, probably that's why they they made it.
Dean:Yeah, yeah.
Billiana:Simpler. But I think it's the fulfillment and the way you feel about things. Yeah.
Dean:You just give more of a shit, right?
Billiana:Yeah. So even when it's tough, at least it feels like, you know, what you why you're doing it. And it goes back to the whys we were talking about earlier when you think about, you know, why am I doing this? Because sometimes money isn't everything and even if you work in in a job and you have, you know, super good salary, sometimes that's not an incentive enough for you to be happy and turn up and be your normal self. And whereas on the other side, I actually feel the opposite.
Billiana:Even if you earn less, not necessarily like less than what you are on or but even if it's not, you know, $6.07, 58 figure business, you feel more fulfilled, you're happy, you feel more human, you're more present, which makes all the difference.
Dean:Like, why would you even want a hundred and 50 k if you're miserable? What good is that to you? Like, for what? What is the how is that trade off worth it? It's just not.
Dean:It's just not. No. Yeah. You you kind of, like, talk openly about taking joy in this, like in the fact that it is a grind, it is hard, but it's quite rewarding in the fact because you build something that's your own. Right.
Dean:Why do you think the fact that it's your own changes something? Like, what changes when you have something that's your own versus something that you're showing up to for someone else?
Billiana:Wow. What a question. Do you know what? I think the flexibility is the key thing when it's your own. Just the the freedom it gives you being your own boss, at least for me personally.
Billiana:Yeah. It's not so much, oh, this is my own. I mean, it's not the prettiest looking thing right now. Like every stage that I've been, right? Yeah.
Billiana:Sometimes it's beautiful. Sometimes it's like, it's not more like, oh, I made this. It's more like what it gives me.
Dean:Yes.
Billiana:And the flexibility and like today I'm here, I didn't have to ask for time off, I didn't have to worry and after this I'll be heading out. It's that lightness that comes with it. But also one of the things that it being your own kind of is how I see it. I don't well, I started with I have these goals and money and Bali and blah blah blah that, you know, everyone's initials trap. And I was like, oh, there is a destination and I need to keep running towards it and I need to keep doing things.
Billiana:But then I realized the destination, the journey is the destination. So, you know, whatever you left your job or for me, I left my job for very personal aspirations and motivations and values. I had great salary, I had great team. I love my most of my clients, sorry for anyone listening, most of my clients. And my job was fun.
Billiana:It was so much fun. I'll go out for boozy lunches. I'll go out to secret cinema. It was amazing.
Dean:That's the hard thing, though. That's the shit part
Billiana:because it's so good. Yeah.
Dean:You paid so well and you're treated so well.
Billiana:But I live for very personal, like personal reasons. I was thinking about, oh, what if, you know, I don't what if, you know, I want to have a baby one day, I don't I want to have a maternity leave as long as I want. I don't want to be, like, constrained in a certain eleven months, twelve months. And and, you know, there are pros and cons of having your own business and how you're going to do it. But I had thoughts like that in my head.
Billiana:And then I started and I was, like, the destination, but then it's just the journey that is it. That's having your own thing. It's about how you live your day and day to day. It's not
Dean:because like, yeah, not every moment is under an umbrella on a beach. No. Like, you might see that and you get to do that. And yes, but for me, it's actually the just mundane shit that I can wake up any day, choose to work if I so wish, choose to not work equally, go and do a fucking podcast, not be like wondering if somebody's messaging me asking about where I am, or having to move my mouse, and make sure that I'm still online. That, that, that.
Dean:It's not about being mega wealthy. It's not about being like, I mean, travel is great and so it's like it's just that little sovereignty you have over any given day, which you don't have when you have to work for somebody in order to to receive the money you need to live your life. Just mad.
Billiana:It's mad. My pet one of my favorite perks and it sounds so tiny, but peak time commute and meetings like now my meetings, if I have to meet someone, it's always past half 10:11. Yeah. Because I don't want to suffer. I didn't leave I didn't leave my job and my morning commute to be in it again.
Billiana:Yeah. And even if it has to be, if it has to happen, I will do it. But you have the flexibility to meet people. And the thing is, most people in my circumstances as well, these people that I meet, I'm like, when are we going to meet or eleven? Let's meet eleven.
Billiana:It's a blessing.
Dean:Yeah, like that. I have never in the past two years said, Oh, no, I can't because I have to be at work.
Billiana:Oh, God.
Dean:You know, anything that comes up, I'm like, it's like, do I I ought to do it because I want to do it or I don't do it because I don't want to. And I think that choice is worth all of it, worth all that shit that we have to eat to get there to be able to do that. And my God, London Underground.
Billiana:Oh, God.
Dean:In the morning, like, no. No. I really I really hate that, especially in the summer. Have you been on the Vicki line in summer?
Billiana:Yes. Horrible. Awful. Horrible.
Dean:This is fun. Yeah. Yeah. This is fun. You got into some shit.
Dean:But I think you've got a lot of value to bring to somebody who's like starting, who's maybe a year in or two years in. And where would I go to follow some of this content we've been talking about if I wanted to follow you?
Billiana:LinkedIn. I'll leave shit. Yes, please. LinkedIn top priority. The other channels are not on my list at the moment.
Billiana:They will come back slowly, but LinkedIn is my hotspot.
Dean:Nice. Cool.
Billiana:Thank you.
Dean:Oh, nice. That was fun.
Billiana:It was fun.
Dean:That's a good laugh. How'd you how'd that feel?
