#9 - Joe Caulfield on Finding His Purpose After Quitting Tech Sales
If you take this, you'll never walk away from that lifestyle.
Dean:What drove you to hand in your notice there in that period?
Joe:Your money is good. I don't drive joy with what I'm doing. Sometimes you have to work a full time job until you get your break. If you're not going to pursue what you want, what's the point in being here? I came out of the interview.
Joe:I rang my dad. I have found it. The greatest gift that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.
Dean:Hey, buddy. Welcome back. We are getting on. Nearly 10 episodes in. Nearly double digits.
Dean:It's been it's been pretty fun, aren't I? Been challenging, been scary, been all that shit. But we're getting some good feedback, people are taking very well to this and it's landing, it's being helpful, it's what I wanted it to be so this is fucking good. And I mean, look, this started out as doing 10 episodes, but I genuinely do think I'm gonna just blast past that and keep going. And keep going until I feel like this isn't gonna be a good thing.
Dean:So stick around. Genuinely though, today is absolutely insane. If you don't know this guest, you're gonna. And his name is Joe Caulfield. Now Joe and I used to work together in Indeed once upon a time doing tech sales, and I always loved Joe, always got along well with Joe.
Dean:And he has since then started an entirely different path, I remember when he left Indeed and it was a sad day, just put it that way. Joe left Indeed and went to pursue a career in broadcasting. Totally left of center. And what you're gonna hear from him in the middle of this episode is just how much passion he has for this. And whether you give a fuck about broadcasting or whether you give a shit about your current job now, Joe's passion for what he does is unbelievable and it comes across in how he speaks.
Dean:And I left this call just feeling like, oh my God, This message, what he says needs to be shared with people. Joe is like genuinely the most positive, infectious, bubbly motherfucker that you will ever meet, and he will leave you fired up. If you didn't have any passion in your Weetabix today, and you're maybe feeling a bit low, or maybe you're feeling amazing anyway, this conversation will bring you to new heights, I promise you that. What Joe and I go through is how he managed his fears when leaving a high paying sales job to pursue his passion. How his persistence led to his unexpected break, and why he believes you are never ever too late to pivot to a career you're passionate about, and how it feels to do your first ever unscripted broadcast on live television and a hell of a lot more as well.
Dean:But if you happen to be new and this is your first episode, Quitable is a show for people who hate their job. Having more time, being financially free, or having a sense of purpose is something, I believe, most if not every single person on the planet would grasp at if they had the chance. Instead, many of us will resign to 30, 40 years in a career that we don't care about and never change. And why not at least try? For me, I was lacking belief.
Dean:I didn't think I could do it until I did. And the aim with each of these episodes is to instill that same belief in you by showing you the minds of other regular people who've done a lot more time, money, freedom, and purpose in their lives. So let's get into it. Don't tell your boss. Joe, I want to start and frame the discussion by we're gonna go from point a with you being in sales.
Dean:Right? And we're gonna take it to where you are now. Point b, being in broadcasting. And
Joe:Mhmm.
Dean:The exit of a career that someone's in and going into a new one, it's quite like it. It's probably the most pertinent period for anyone who wants to get out of a career that isn't right for them. And I think your story kinda highlights a lot of the different bumps along the way, and I think it just demonstrates that the path isn't linear, and I wanna get into that. So I'm gonna start us at the point of you working in Indeed, right, in 2018 where we worked together before. And I'd like to understand, like, what drove you to hand in your notice there in that period?
Joe:Yeah. So when you you contacted me, I I reflected upon it. And I was thinking, was there a moment kind of stop the word and let me off? I need to get out of here type of thing. And really there wasn't, which I suppose is probably a lot of people's experience.
Joe:You go to work every day. You come home from work every day. You're getting your paycheck. Things are grand. It's it's difficult to remove yourself from that when there there isn't a real triggering moment.
Joe:It's more of a kind of insidious kind of creep of dread that you know in your heart to heart, this is not fulfilling me. I am not being satisfied in this job. The money is good. The people are great. But at the end of the day, I don't drive joy from what I'm doing.
Joe:And that just builds up on me over time to the point where I spoke to my manager about it. And I like, when I actually handed him my notice, Dave Arine was my manager at the time, and he was like, where are you going? And I said, I don't know, Dave. I have nothing planned. I know that I I by performing, I don't know.
Joe:Is it broadcasting, or is it acting, or what it is? But I know until I leave here, I won't find out what it is. And it was interesting because Dave had actually been accepted into RADA, the acting school in London before he got into sales. And it was actually circumstances in his life that drove him into getting, you know, a job to pay the bills. So he was in a great position to be like, listen, man.
Joe:You're at you have no responsibilities in your life. You're not gonna do it now. You'll never do it. And he he was really encouraged. Like, this is my boss Yeah.
Joe:Encouraging me to leave my job to pursue what would fulfill me in life. And that was amazing. And when I got, like, a week after I left, I had some savings and
Dean:I was like, oh, I
Joe:need to find myself. I began to panic. I was like, what am I gonna do now? And another previous, colleague of ours, Alan Martin, he had been asked to go for a job in Oracle. He didn't want it.
Joe:So he put me for he contacted me and said, would you like to be put forward? And panicking. I was like, yeah.
Dean:Yeah.
Joe:So went to the interview process and we got to the offer stage and it was €96,000 a year that I would have made in my 1st year. And I was 27. And I remember that being a moment where I was like, don't take it. Because you take this, you'll never walk away from that lifestyle, and you'll never find what you wanna do. And you'll wake up and you'll be 40, and you'll have a mortgage, and you'll have kids, and you won't be able to walk away from it.
Joe:So I turned that down, got through Christmas, and I started just going auditions for different stuff. Acting wasn't really what I wanted to do because, again, the people I was going to auditions with, it was their vocation. They were so passionate about it. I didn't have that. And then there was a show advertised called About last night.
Joe:And the premise of it was that there was a team in Dublin, team on the West Coast, team in Belfast. And the presenters would go to a gig, interview the act, and film the gig. And then the editor would cut it all together, would come out on Monday, and it'd be about last night. This is what happened in the music scene in Ireland at the weekend. And I remember I prepped for the interviews for us, And I did the interview in a bar on day on Camden Street in Dublin, opium.
Joe:And I went in and I told the lads why I wanted to do it. And they were like, okay. Do a mock interview with someone. And I was like, who would they write? Anyone?
Joe:And I was like, Liam Gallagher is playing in Malachi Castle tonight. I'm backstage. So I I I got into, like, presenter mode immediately as if I was presenting to them to a camera. As I come here backstage in not a high castle with Liam Gallagher and turned to the guy who turned out to my be my boss and interviewed him. And they were bringing their was Liam Gallagher?
Joe:Yeah. I was like, Liam, what's it like to be back in Ireland? I know you're, like, Irish roots and all the store crack. And blew them away. And I came out of the interview, and I rang my dad.
Joe:And I was like, I don't know am I gonna get that or not, but this is what I am here to do. This is the thing I have founded. And Wow. That sense of relief, elation, and joy is something that will live me forever.
Dean:What's mental about this to me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this is that you had the tenacity to quit without anything And not only did you not have like a backup plan you didn't even know where you were looking You were kinda just like I'm not feeling this. And and I think even to stop right there, that was something I had, like 1,000,000 percent. I was like, I just I just I s so good for so many reasons, but I just know it s not right. But the fact that you still like, you you you were quite brave there to take that little not little. That's a big leap.
Dean:Right?
Joe:Yeah. Absolutely. And that's, I think, why I panicked not long after. You see, like, you know from being Indeed, the money is good And the whole life is good. Like, you're in an atmosphere where everyone's really sound.
Joe:And you get on really well. And the lifestyle is really good. And the social aspect is really good. But I don't know. It was annoying feeling.
Joe:It's like when you're in a relationship that you just know is wrong or whatever it is. And I suppose if people are to take anything from this, is that I am a really strong believer in your gut feeling, listen to your heart, listen to whatever the little voice is inside you. Because if it's, like, if it's Monday morning and you're home from the weekend and the external factors are making you feel like that, well, then maybe ignore it until Wednesday. But if it's a persistent thing where you know you're not fulfilled, start looking. Start like, it's on you.
Joe:You only have one go at life. And if you're too lazy to find the thing that you wanna do, that's fine. But don't be surprised if you're unfulfilled when you're when time passes you. And I don't think there's ever a point at which you can change and find something else, but it does become harder due to other responsibilities you have in your life.
Dean:Couldn't agree more. And you've kinda highlighted something there. It's like you've got the pain you've got 2 options here. The pain of continuing as you are till you're 40, 50, 60, and then it's the then it's probably beyond saving then at that point or the pain of making a change now and and and going through some pain now. So just it's it's painful either way.
Dean:It sucks either way.
Joe:And I think people are, people are more comfortable with dealing with pain that they are familiar with than taking the the risk of going out into the world. I'll tell you something. Like, COVID was a massive, COVID was a massive learning for me and I would imagine everyone. Because I I was doing this. I got I got that job presenting.
Joe:Loved it. But it wasn't paid. So I was working full time. And I moved back to Galway. And I was working in a sales company.
Joe:And again, I was all like, I wanted to make the move into doing this professionally. I was building up a good bit of experience. I was also working in college radio at the time. So I was kinda covering a couple of different bases. And then COVID happened, and I was selling software into hotel.
Joe:And I remember ringing people, like, the week after Patty's day, and they were like, why are you calling us? We're just after we're being told by the government shutdown. We've just let out all our staff. We're not buying anything. And I was made redundant after that.
Joe:And it was brazen away because I got a redundancy payment, and I was able to take the PUP and and spend a year full time trying to get into broadcasting and thankfully getting there. But the point that I took from was, you can choose the safe option. You can stay in the job that you don't like because it pays the bills and it's secure. And then anything can happen. Pandemic can happen.
Joe:God forbid you can get sick. Whatever. Nothing is secure in life. Nothing is guaranteed. So you you can take the pain and end up getting screwed regardless.
Joe:You may as well go for the the riskier, more difficult thing that may fulfill your ambitions.
Dean:Hell, yeah, man. And and I wanna get into that period of transition, by the way. I I definitely wanna circle back to that because I saw in preparing for this episode, I wasn't quite aware of the in between part between where you were in Indeed and where you are now. And, like, I saw you got into recruitment. You were in a talent acquisition job and and and, insurance company.
Joe:Yeah. I see.
Dean:Like, what was those was the decisions to jump into a company like that, was that like a financially driven decision? Like, shit, I need to kind of just cover myself here while I'm trying to make this broadcasting thing work?
Joe:Yeah. Absolutely. So that was a that was a it wasn't freelancing. I think it was a 1 year contract that I had. And I was in a job where I my only responsibility to that job was to be there 9 to 5 and fill roles and do whatever.
Joe:And I went in and I had a conversation with him at the start. And I I own I didn't want I I had no intention of becoming full time or getting promotion or whatever. I'm here to do the job and do well while while I'm here, but I am pursuing stuff elsewhere. And I was doing that broadcasting job and I was looking for other stuff. But at the end of the day, to get in, get your foot in the door, to to get on to the other platform, sometimes you just have to work a full time job.
Joe:And then, like, I I would finish at half 4 on a Friday, hop in the car, drive down to St. Luke's in Cork, interview a guy, and, I remembered like, can I can I go on a very quick tangent? Because it's all about, like, what makes it worth it. I worked my full 40 hour working week in that set. I had driven 3 and a half hours down to Cork.
Joe:Get there, record the show. Badly Drawn Boys, the guy's the artist's name. And it was brilliant. It was such a rousing performance. And then I met his manager who was supposed to be setting this up, and he was like, yeah.
Joe:I don't know if he's gonna be on for doing the interview. I was like, how do you mean? I came here for the interview. He was like, oh. So he brings me in, and he introduces me to Damon as if I was a fan.
Joe:I I was like, yeah. So the interview, and he was like, no. I'm not doing an interview. Oh my god. What am I gonna do?
Joe:So I was like, look. I understand you're just just in a show. I came down from Dublin. I'd really like to chat to you for 5 minutes. I'm gonna set up outside.
Joe:Take your time. Have a beer. Do whatever. If you could come out and just talk to me for a few minutes, I'd really appreciate it. And I went out and I was all I I the the show is nothing without the interview.
Joe:You have to get the interview. So I went out and I started chatting to a sound engineer. I had done the research, though I knew your man's name because they've been together for, like, 15 years. Chatting away to him. And then Damon kinda comes out, and he's, like, mooching around, but he's really noncommittal.
Joe:I'm still talking to a sound engineer, but conscious of the fact that he's kind of hovering. And I was like, Damon, is your mother from Rescoma? And he was like, he was like, yeah. And I was like, I'm only asking because I'm from Roscommon, and no one's from Roscommon. I was like, where about?
Joe:And he was like, well, my mom isn't from Roscommon. My parents from Roscommon. They moved over when she was like, 3 or 4. He was like, I don't even know where she's from. He was like, I'll text her.
Joe:Text his mother in in Coventry at whatever time in the morning this was. And that started he and I having a conversation. Right? Then we started talking about everything. And then I was like, listen.
Joe:Do you mind if I turn on the camera when we get about this? And he got to the point where he was so comfortable now. He was like, yeah. No hassle. Recorded the interview.
Joe:It was really good. And I remember driving back to Dublin at, like, half 2 in the morning, having started my working day at, like, 8 o'clock. And this just the energy that would buzz and threw me at all the windows open the car so that I wouldn't fall asleep. I was blaring oasis, but I was like, this is what I can do this. I enjoy doing this.
Joe:People like talking to me. And what I'm trying to get at here is, yeah, you'd sometimes have to work a full time job as well until you get your break. And the little wins that give you the energy are the things you need to search and hold on to because you're gonna have to live on those for a while until you get a break.
Dean:So, so true. And your I want to I want to just stay on this for a moment, you know, that period where you have a job, you still have to work and you still have to do the other thing in your in your free time. Because while there's a it's quite romantic to think of just fucking sack the job off and leave, you know, very quickly that financially might bite you in the arse. So, yeah, I think this is a very important subject. And a lot of people who are listening will probably think like, shit, my company, they're they'd be kinda breathing down my neck or my manager might not take too kindly to me to me doing this.
Dean:Like, in your scenario, like, how did the company you said you were working in a tech company after the insurance company. Like, how did they feel about this and what was that like?
Joe:Again, so I think that's really about setting expectations with people. So when I started so I left Anza. I moved back to Go Away and I started SignMinder. And from and I'd be the very person who'd be conscious of I can't tell them that I'm doing this other thing or they're they're gonna question my commitment to this job that I'm doing, and I get that. Yeah.
Joe:And in the interview or very quickly after, when I was in I was like, oh, yeah. Well, I do a radio show on Fleur To Fame. And they're like, why? I was like, well, I'm really into broadcast and I really like it. And they were like, yeah.
Joe:Cool. That that's fine. And I was like, oh, I also do this online show or whatever. They're like, when do you do this? I was like, oh, well, evenings and weekends.
Joe:So I had I'd set my stall out that I do I have this other life, and I pursue it just like some people play Gaelic football, play in 2 nights a week, play a match on the weekend, just whatever. Being honest and upfront is the most important thing because everybody understands what's going on, and you don't have this creeping sense of, like, oh, god. I'm hiding this thing from them. And if someone asked you to work late in a Wednesday, you're like, well, I I have the radio show. I have this thing.
Joe:They know. Everybody understands the case. And if if it comes to a stage where you're like, I've just got offered a full time job in a radio station to your boss. You're like, well, you know something? You've been here 2 years.
Joe:You've never missed a day. You've never missed a target. You've been a good worker. We ask you to fulfill a certain workload in order for the paycheck you get at the end of the month. You've done that.
Joe:And you've told me you're pursuing this other thing, and now I'm happy for you. And if they're not happy for you, well, they're not nice people, so you won't be able to.
Dean:You, I by the way, that the way you've framed that whole thing to them is perfect. You just said, hey, look. I am doing this thing, and here's the reasons why. It's something I'm passionate about. It's something that I really want to pursue.
Dean:No offence, but I didn't come in to just perform this duty for you until the end of my days. I'm happy I'm here and all that stuff. And I think if you go back to something you said earlier, right? Your director in Indeed, when you told him you were thinking about leaving and you just told your reasons and the fact that it was important to you and that this wasn't fulfilling you and he encouraged you to leave because of that. And anyone who is that honest and that upfront to a human being, to an individual, like they're next in line, lets say how could they not respond that way?
Joe:And and if they respond but if you're open and you're honest and you tell them, you know, how it is and they respond badly, I think you walk out of that conversation with, like, do you know something? I owe you nothing. Like, you know, if if you're gonna if you're gonna respond to the way I've spoken to you like that, well, you know, good luck, mate. Yeah. Whereas, if they're you know, if you're decent and they're decent, you'll like, find my table right in the street right now.
Joe:I'd I'd stop and chat to them and go over appointment. John, that's alright. So Yeah.
Dean:Shout out to Dave O'Reilly.
Joe:Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:So I wanna go back to broadcasting here. Right? So back in that moment when you did the about last night gig, and you said you had this kinda, like, eureka moment. Like, where do you think that came from in you? Like, had you never even thought about broadcasting and you just rolled the dice here, or did you have an inkling that this was ever in you?
Joe:I to be very honest, I don't know. Well, sorry. The the honest answer is no because I don't know, if you know what I mean. I had never done presenting before. I would have been comfortable kind of performing on front of people, speaking on front of people, and done a little bit of acting.
Joe:It it was kind of a eureka moment because I saw and, also, I don't know if I knew that those roles existed because they're not very common to to have, like, an online show where you go around interviewing people because there's an element of it in radio, and I don't know why I never pursued that until I had actually started doing it about last night. But, yeah, as soon as I read the ad, I was like, oh, yeah. This is up my street. And I and, again, had I not left Indeed's, I wouldn't have been looking for the ad. So I I needed to leave to find what was out there.
Joe:And I when I was prepping for it, I was, like, you know when you're, when you can't go out because you're studying for a test, you resent it? I was at home being like, I don't want to go out. I want to be at home doing this. I'm interested in this. I enjoy doing this.
Joe:And then when they came to perform that that, interview, that that kind of audition, just I grew into it. It it was so natural to me.
Dean:Hey. Sorry to interrupt the show. Very quick favor to ask you. If you are finding any value or even finding it slightly entertaining, please consider giving me a follow on whichever platform you're watching this or listening to it on. It really helps, especially in the early stage of growth, and I will owe you a big, big thanks.
Dean:And the difference in the way the difference in the way you show up to something like that versus the way you show up and carry yourself for something that isn't lighting you up in that way, Mhmm. Out in those two places you are in are right.
Joe:And Yeah. I I think you're I I think I think you're not trying to impress people. You're just try you're just doing it natural, you know?
Dean:You're doing it for the love of it.
Joe:Exactly. Yeah.
Dean:When so I wanna touch on one other thing that somebody who's listening to this might be thinking of. Right? And especially as Irish people I think we can be somewhat judgmental maybe or we like watching what the neighbours are doing? What the hell is Joe Cofield doing? Is he getting into broadcasting?
Dean:And we're quite like conscious that people might be talking about us. And it's not like it's not like it's unique to Irish people or whatever, but I'm just, highlighting that kind of side of Aus. But can you remember any instances where family and friends were maybe saying things to you that made you feel like this wasn't the right way? Or were you finding everyone was quite supportive of you?
Joe:I was incredibly lucky. Everybody was incredibly supportive. I remember I stopped working in Indeed, and I went home for Christmas a few months later. Now where I'm from Casaubre, you get slang about absolutely everything all the time. The the the the top environment you wanna have fixed in.
Joe:So I thought I thought I was gonna get torn asunder. And everybody was like was like they're like, oh, what are you doing? I said, oh, I'll give up working on acting. They were like, you know, also the man. If that's what you wanna do, go for a flight.
Joe:Why wouldn't you? Absolutely. And I remember meeting 2 of my best friends. Their dad, who now passed away is not like I remember meeting him in the pub. Again, he'd be mad.
Joe:He'd be well able to kinda stick it into you. And maybe he could partake in the bank as well. But I remember telling him about it, And he was like he was like, do you know something? Fair play to you. He was like, life is all about challenge.
Joe:He said, what is life without challenge? What is like what's the point in being here if you're not going to pursue what you want? Go for it. Leave it all out there and see what happens. And if you fail, you fail, but you have to go for it.
Joe:And like those conversations I had with people were so encouraging. I would have done it anyway, but it was so heartening, so encouraging to have that support in my life.
Dean:I feel like most people, if you talk to them 1 on 1, are very supportive.
Joe:Oh, very much so. Like, there are people whose particularly your parents might be concerned about you.
Dean:Sure. And
Joe:you've left the security for something else. My out there weren't like that, I have to say. They were really supportive. But, again, you have to be in a place where you have to be of the I think you have to be of the mindset that you won't go at. You won't go at life.
Joe:And you have to be happy. It might sound selfish, but if you children, obviously, you need to you priority, your responsibilities, that's fine. But you have to make yourself happy in life. You have to pursue the things that are going to fulfill you, that are going to give you satisfaction. Because at the end of the day, you have to live with yourself every day.
Joe:The person who's given you advice of what to do, they don't wake up with you in the middle of the night and have all the dark thoughts. They don't skip to work when you're doing that amazing thing that fulfilled you. They don't live with you 24 hours a day, all the day of your life. You do. And it it's your responsibility to do what makes you happy in the brief existence we have on this earth.
Dean:So true. And a lot of people who are in the position we were in. Right? We worked in sales and everything's so rosy. But it's like this It's your face and your own thoughts with it and it might not be that It's not maybe there a 100% of the time but it might be there 8% of the time, you know?
Dean:Like just in the background like this little cloud that's just there that tells you that you are not where you should be, my friend. And and for me, it was very difficult to carry that with me for for long periods. So I really do resonate with what you said. And I wanna get back to where we are now with, like, your current state of affairs. I saw you were working for Midlands.
Dean:I saw you were working for Virgin and then Bauer. Sorry if I put you that pronunciation. Like, is the nature of broadcasting to, like, jump gig to gig? Like, is it, like, being an actor? Or how how does that work from a stability point of view?
Joe:Well, it it's funny. So I spent a year between being met redundant to getting the job in Midlands, and it was during the pandemic. So I was applying for so I I did a radio course with, LearningWaves. And that was great because I I got to put together a package so I could actually apply for different places. And I learned to use, like, software where I could push demos all the time.
Joe:But I spent, like, 6 months solid from Christmas until the end of June, applying for jobs. Actually, not even applying for jobs. I had, like, a massive Excel sheet of everybody who was even, like, tangentially connected to the media industry in Ireland. And I just played the shit out of them for 6 months. Send them demos.
Joe:Send them emails. Send them to my CV. Most of them didn't respond. Those who did told me, there's a pandemic going on, pal. You cannot physically enter our building for us to train you in.
Joe:And it was really, discouraging, demoralizing. Got to a place where I I knew I wanted to do it so much, but I didn't know if it was gonna happen for me. And thankfully, my girlfriend, Adesia, she kept saying to me, she was like, you're a presenter. You just don't have a job. Like, that's incorrect.
Joe:Again, I've I've been so lucky with people in my life. But that that's what you need to tell yourself. Whether it's presenting, or it's acting, or it's business, or it's re whatever. I am this thing. I'm just not employed in this thing right now.
Joe:Keep going and keep going. And finally, I got the interview from Midlands starting on the 6th July. And, again, I had never worked with a journalist before. So I needed to I moved to Tullamore because I wanted to dedicate all my time to that. I didn't want to be coming up or down the road to Dublin every day.
Joe:Moved there. And I spent, like, 3 months, like, painstaking, spending hours refining the art of writing copy and cutting clip and creating stories that were compelling because that's the whole thing. How do you get the audience to care about the story you're telling? And one of the people that I had actually plagued before I got the job was the head of music sport in Virgin Media, McCaffrey. And he got back to me.
Joe:And he said, we're now looking for someone. What are you doing? And I I said, well, I I'm now a broadcast journalist. And it was amazing because it meant that they needed to come teach me to cut video. But script writing is the hardest part.
Joe:But putting together a story and reading, reading well live, they're the 2 to really tricky bit. So I had that. So I started working again 7 days a week. So I was doing 9 to 5 Monday to Friday in, Midlands. And then I was doing 2 weekends a month in Virgin.
Joe:So I was working 7 days a week, 2 weeks a month. And I had more energy than I've ever had in my life because I the the energy you get from doing the thing that you feel you're here to do, and you've been trying so hard to get into. You're just so glad to be given a shot. You sleep like a baby and you like, for 6 hours a night and then you're gone. It's it's amazing.
Joe:And then 6 months later, 4 months later, in January, that was that started in Halloween. 2 people left and they asked me and Virgin to come on full time. But as a freelancer, they were like, we can give you 5 or 6 days a week, which means that I had to leave Midland 103, roll the dice, went for that. And again, setting out setting your standards or setting expectations. I said, I like working in the background and cutting packages, but I really wanna be on camera.
Joe:And I'll do whatever you need me to do. Go out and record demos, record do whatever. I I read that's where that's where I want to be. So as soon as someone left and there was, a report that needed to be done, they were like, Joe, do you wanna do it? As I went.
Joe:And, again, I remember recording my first demo. Didn't go great. Took me a couple of times, but got it done. Got it sent back. And, you know, 8 months after I got my first job broadcasting, I was broadcasting live on national television.
Joe:Oh. And that doesn't happen, like, doesn't happen in a vacuum. You have to go through the 6 months of really hard work every day, getting nowhere, not knowing will you ever get anywhere. When it hits, that payoff is still worth it. It's indescribable.
Dean:I wanna talk about that. Right? That first gig, because I actually remember, you know, you keep up with people who you've worked with and see them on LinkedIn or Instagram. Right? And I remember seeing flicking on LinkedIn, and I just it was like Joe Caulfield reporting in, like, I think it was the Aviva Stadium.
Dean:Right? Or Thobank Park, maybe.
Joe:Yeah. Yeah. I was like Thobankwa. Yeah. That's great.
Dean:I was like, no way, Joe. And, like, you were smashing him. Like, you were owning that stage of the metaphorical stage. And I would like I don't know which one was your first one, but whichever one was your first one, like, talk to me about after everything you've been through, you've left Indeed, you went to AXA, you went to Siteminder, you've gone through all this shit and recorded all your demos and fucked up and all this. And then you're finally here and you're ready to do your first one live.
Dean:What was that feeling like?
Joe:It was terrifying, Dean. Okay? Because right. So the first time the first live spot I did on telly was anchoring. So I was anchoring the, the the 5:30 news.
Joe:Right? And I was preparing for it. So, usually, what happens is during the afternoon, there'll be a game on, and the person working reporter cuts a package of that game. Fine. That game would be done usually about 5 o'clock.
Joe:So the in line, the script for us, monster into the and cup semifinal, I think, beaten to lose today by 17 points to 6. Phil, Philip so Paul Walsh reports. Right? And then they play the package. Right?
Joe:So the point is you have time to read the script before it comes offline. But the game that was being caught on the my first day ever on national television was Monster versus To Lose. And a quarter past by, they were drawn. Then they went to extra time. This script that was my first lines ever on national television was not being written now till 20 to 6.
Joe:I was going live at 10 to 6. Then they went to penalties for the second time in the history history of the high leading cause. First time in 20 years, penalty. So that meant that my first introduction to to the National Broadcasting was staying. Right?
Joe:Paul Walsh is here. Bill is cutting. Paul is telling me the in line is Munster and Toulouse are drawn at full time in the high end cup quarter final, Paul Walsh reports. So he reports that 1 minute package plays. And in the interim, the penalty shootout is on the television that I'm watching while I have the screen here as well.
Joe:I'm on screen, but they're now playing the video. So I can look up and I'm like, what's happening in this game? Who's when? During the one minute that that was played, Munster lost. I think it went to maybe it was Ramos who scored the winning penalty.
Joe:It comes back to me and, like, Munster just lost. To lose the blood one with the 6th penalty, Ramos has scored. That was it. And then into the rest of the news bulletin, it was terrifying. But it was also exhilarating.
Joe:Because when it was done, the lads come up with their their that is the hardest thing you will ever have to do. And you got through it. Didn't nail it. Wasn't like as fluid and perfect as I would have been a year later because I'd never done it before. But it was I can't.
Joe:I was like, I did it. It was as hard as it could possibly be, and I did it. And it's end, like, the
Dean:Is that like a flow state feeling? Is that what Yeah. Like, what's it like? Is it is it like this adrenaline rush? You're just It's something Smith jumping.
Joe:It's something that you'll only know you can do it or not when you're put in the position of doing this. You either have have that temperament that you can deal with this when it's tested. Also, you're watching all these things, and you have a director counting you down. They're like, okay, Joe. We're coming back to you in 15 seconds.
Joe:5 or by the way, step take a step closer to the thing, whatever. So you're getting this information, all that. There's there's a point at which you need to just quiet your minds, focus on what you know and why you can stay, stay at, and then stop talking. It's it's a talent that I I it's why I love my job, and I feel that I I I'm good at it. I can do it, and I know I can do it.
Joe:And the more you do it, the more once you get over that, you're like, oh my god. I can actually do this. Thanks be to god. So I spent the last 2 years trying to get here, And then it's all on the line. And then you you you you deliver.
Joe:And that sense of satisfaction and relief, you're like, yeah. This is it. This is what we're here to do, Joseph. Let's go. It's amazing.
Dean:I'm so hyped up right now. I'm I'm just so happy that you you found that, man. And like I said, I genuinely saw that post on LinkedIn and I thought, Joe is gonna act. Like, that is so for you. Now if I was listening to this I might be thinking well what does it maybe they might be thinking broadcasting actually sounds like something that maybe I could be into Maybe if I'm listening to this I'm thinking what do I need in order to be a broadcaster?
Dean:Like, what are the skills or qualities that you think if somebody right now was listening and feels like the way you felt and thought it would be good for them, what would you say they should focus on or what would they need to have?
Joe:The amazing thing now is that, like, you literally have in your pocket right now listening to this podcast the facility to be a broadcaster that didn't exist 15 years ago. What I would say is start creating content. Don't wait. Whatever it is, whatever you're interested in, someone else would be interested in. If you're interested in Goodfellas, if you're interested in crocheting, if you're interested in porta culture, someone else.
Joe:100 of thousands of people probably are into it as well. Create a TikTok account. Create an Instagram account. Create a little podcast setup and start recording. Because nobody is going to employ you without hearing you or seeing you.
Joe:And they don't you don't have to have a huge following. But you have to have enough so that when you start applying, when you go to radio stations or television stations or create the Excel sheet that I created, go on LinkedIn, find people in Orchard, find people in Virgin, find people in Bauer. When you email them, send them something, Attach, your best file, your best podcast, your best whatever it is to give them a sense of you. And this is unbelievable advice that I got about a year into broadcasting. Don't try to be someone else.
Joe:Don't try to be Joe Coffey. Don't try to be Richard Chambers or Ron Burgundy or anyone else. Because, first of all, you can't be them as well as they are them because they are them. And nobody can be better than you at being you. And people and we know this from sales.
Joe:People have an unbelievable radar for bullshit.
Dean:Yes.
Joe:People are are turned off when they feel you're not being genuine. But when they feel like you're being yourself or being natural, you're being genuine, they buy into you. So do that. Follow the things you're passionate about. Be interested in it.
Joe:And that'll make other people interested in it, and then cut that and work your ass off to get that bit of content in front of everyone. Because it's about finding the thing that you're passionate about, working to be good asses, and then working really, really, really hard is the feeling getting into
Dean:One of the things I've spoken to public guests about now, and a friend of mine and I, we talked about it so much because he also records himself. But, like, getting comfortable at being you, right, While a camera is looking at you is a bit of a It's almost not natural to be natural when a camera's there You have this mental shift where you kinda have to put on a bit of a show like hey it's me and the camera And I think that's a very good point to be you. Like, on filtered note, don't even add 5% or reduce 5% be just completely how you would be talking to a mate in a pub?
Joe:Zach and, you know, it can actually be hard because you're so conditioned to listen listening to, like, radio reports or television reports or match of the day packages or whatever delivered in a certain style, then you automatically start doing it yourself. When you write a script, you start reading it in that voice. You're like, you have to decon like, deconstruct the way that you have been conditioned to speak, but you'll get there. And practice. And it's interesting as well.
Joe:I started doing demos because you're there's an element of embarrassment as in, like, how do I sound? How will people perceive the way I sound? How will I would how will I be perceived? The more you do it, the more comfortable you get. The more you knock out, it's all about repetition and practice.
Joe:Yes, you become better, but also you just become more comfortable and familiar with doing it. It becomes easier.
Dean:Hey there. Quick interruption to give you a little freebie. I am recruiting people to join my newsletter. It's 100% free. You can join and leave it anytime you wish.
Dean:All I do is send you one email per week contained within will be information from guests, upcoming insights, or maybe some sneak previews of guests that haven't come up yet. If you wanna get involved, go to quitable. Me, pop your email in, and I will send you one email for a week. Cheers. I actually made a video on this subject the other day about impostor syndrome.
Dean:It's like you start off doing something, you feel shit at doing it because you, guess what, are shit. And you've never done it and in order to get good at it you need to practice it. And then impostor syndrome dwindles away. And this is this is no different. It's just like for me, podcasting, right?
Dean:I'm sure I'll look back on early episodes and be like, what the hell was I doing? You know? But it's just a process of practicing it. I just have to get good at doing it.
Joe:And how and how how are you gonna get good unless you start off bad and improve? No other way of doing it. No.
Dean:No way. Right. One question here. This is kinda like a matter of fact question because the thing about leaving a high paying job. Right?
Dean:Let's think of people in sales. We know a lot of them. Think of people in finance or consulting or maybe just an tech company, right? It's very hard to distance yourself from that because it pays so well. It's like it's one of the lowest barrier to entry spaces where you can get paid so much.
Dean:It's not like being a doctor you have to work study for years years years. You can get into this and earn fucking shitloads of money. And to step away from that is quite hard. Like how do you find media financially when you compare it to sales? And I mean, is it much different?
Dean:And if so, how do you handle that?
Joe:Yes. It is much different. I remember talking to a person when I started working at Virgin. Everyone was so sound. Like, in in general, everybody I work with, I've worked with the broadcaster, has been incredibly sound.
Joe:And I remember talking to a guy who was freelancer, long time man in the industry, very sound guy. I was I was like, oh, I can't believe how the sound everyone is. It was like, that's because everyone comes here loving what they do. It's not a chore for them to come to work because they enjoy what they do. And that's why they'll never pay you enough to do it.
Joe:And it is a hard reality of broadcasting, of journal journalism generally. You're not gonna make sales money. K? I don't think you have to accept that, though. I will always want to be a broadcast journalist.
Joe:I have massive passion for it. But it doesn't mean that the money I make in broadcast journalism, I can't invest well. It doesn't mean that you can't expand your horizons to to other things, to public speaking, to to teaching courses I'm presenting. You you cannot and this is not just to do with broadcasting or media or whatever it is. You cannot allow yourself to think you have no control over whatever it is in your life.
Joe:You can't think, oh, well, I'll never make money because I'm in this, or I can't make more money because of this. If you think that way, that will be your reality. But instead of spending your time like that, think, okay. So what am I good at here? Like, what skill set do I have that other people desire?
Joe:People are terrified of public speaking. K? I love it. I married a a couple of my friends last year. I'm doing another one next year just because I actually enjoy doing it.
Joe:They asked me
Dean:as well. I didn't, like, show up and, like, hey. Can I throw in
Joe:a lot of that to do it? But most people, that'd be their worst nightmare. I love it. So what I'm actually getting into at the moment is public speaking and teaching people the kernels of public speaking and presenting that I have learned over my career because it's something that I would like to impart. And also, it would give value to people.
Joe:And I'll charge them for that value. But the point of this is, don't confine yourself to thinking you have no control over the amount of money you make or the job you're in or whatever it is in your life. You do have control. It might take bravery. You might need to lose something to gain something.
Joe:But your life is yours. And what you make, what you do, who you're with, they are all your choices. Don't ever forget them.
Dean:And imagine, right, you've got 2 choices, 2 options. You've got somebody just some genie shows up and he has 2 options here for you. Option a, you're in sales or you're in finance or whatever, and you're getting paid a nice bit of dough, but you have that, like I said earlier, like, the cloud that follows you around knowing that you shouldn't be here. Or option b, you get paid a little bit less, you can still live, but you're showing up every day to work with a passion and a vigor and just this energy that you describe. Like, I I think if anyone was given choice a and choice b, like, would anyone pick choice a?
Dean:Where did you stay and do something they don't like?
Joe:Mhmm.
Dean:I don't think so.
Joe:The little thing is that, right, imagine your friends came to you with this pickup. Imagine it wasn't you. They were like, oh, I'm in this job and I make good money or whatever it is, but I hate I hate going to work every day. Sunday night, I had that piss in my stomach. I wanna do this other thing.
Joe:What would you advise them to do? Someone you love. You the other thing, man. Life's too short. Enjoy your life.
Joe:Do something your makes you happy, that you're passionate about. We don't follow the advice we would give to our loved ones most of the time.
Dean:That's so true. You would 100% give that advice to someone if they said that to you yet, you've and wouldn't give it to yourself.
Joe:Yeah.
Dean:Crazy. I talked about a phrase a quote that I absolutely love. I'm gonna give it to you and then get your thoughts. Yeah. It's a banger.
Dean:It's a banger. Get ready for this. If you if you risk nothing, you risk everything. Absolutely brilliant.
Joe:Good. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. I have one view. Let's go.
Joe:Teddy Roosevelt said it. The greatest gift that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. And whatever that is for you, different for everyone. Find us and work harder.
Dean:So now you've got this thing. You're here, You might say. Somebody might say, okay, he's arrived. You know, I'm I'm I've made it. Quote unquote made it.
Dean:Like, what you talked earlier about challenges and you want to be challenged. Like, how are you being challenged right now in this space that you are in?
Joe:Well, so I was in Virgin for two and a half years. And I was in sports broadcasting. And I wanted to move from news. And and it's really hard when you're on TV to risk losing that. But I want to be in news.
Joe:That's where I I want my career to go. And so I had to leave Virgin to pursue that. And that's why I went to Bauer Media. And again, I'm freelance. And I I was in a position in Virgin where I was doing a job where I like and I loved being on TV because I loved delivering live reports.
Joe:But, again, I I had that known feeling. I was like, you're you're getting pigeonholed in this place that you don't wanna be in. It's time to it's time to, kind of, to make the hard choice again. But I was I was working there so frequently that I was basically on the roster 5 or 6 days a week. And now I was going to Bauer Media where I was the new guy and I was struggling to get shifts and so on.
Joe:But it's a never ending journey, man. You know? Like, you have to make the decisions that you think are right at the moment. Always be looking for things that are fulfilling you. Try to spend your energy or direct your energy into pursuits that you feel will give you fulfillment if you give a 100% too.
Joe:So I'm working on radio now. I'm doing some anchoring. I'm doing some reporting. I want to do more reporting. I'm trying to direct more of my time into that.
Joe:And, simultaneously, I want to get into public speaking, and I wanna do that in tandem with this. I wanna do a bit of there's other stuff that I'm working on as well that would be kinda more instructive side type stuff. The point is that you've never made it. You know? Like, there will be little wins along the way that you should cherish, you should remember, to hold dear to your heart because that's what life is about as well.
Joe:Like, it's all about challenges. But when you succeed the challenge, take a moment to appreciate
Dean:it. For
Joe:sure. Enjoy it. And then move on to the next one. Find the next one. Find what they're saying.
Dean:I, like, I'm trying to balance those 2, like, being happy and content and grateful for what I have, of which I could point to many many many things, but also being hungry and trying to trying to change things, trying to change my situation. Like, I think there is space for both, You can they can coexist together, those things. It's not one or the other. But you definitely have to remind yourself, like pat yourself on the back. I never do it, but when I do, I'm like,
Joe:nice one. Yeah. Yeah. Take a moment. Like, I I I because usually for me, they they come in, like, little performative moments.
Joe:You do a live report. That one. You you get a a warm feeling. There are moments in my day that you can look back on specifically and be like, that. Most days aren't like that.
Joe:Most weeks aren't like that. You're working in between the high points to get there, to get to those high points. But when you get to the high points, enjoy the view, and then keep going.
Dean:And I love now that you've shown that just because you might be pursuing something, you might have plan a. Like plan a might turn into plan b, c, plan version a 2.03.0 in the form of you doing public speaking and then teaching public speaking. Like it's not just linear in that way and I think for anyone who's listening I will leave your contact information in the show notes for if they want to pursue or consider pursuing broadcasting or public speaking. But I think your story man is just it's so relatable and I mean I for one having obviously worked with you once upon a time and been in sales to now I feel like I'm doing something that I have found a genuine passion for, something that I actually care more about I certainly can relate to hearing you and your story and I really hope anyone who's listening does as well If to round this off, right, if you could tell someone who has been maybe a little bit moved or that maybe you've got them thinking with your story now. And what would you tell them to do, like, immediately?
Dean:Right now, they're about to put their phone back in their pocket or take their headphones out. What's the first thing they should do? What's the first domino they should tip over?
Joe:The advice I would have for anyone is that there will be a voice in your head that says, do it tomorrow. Hire now. You get a good night's sleep. We get up early tomorrow. We'll do it then.
Joe:Don't listen to that voice because that voice will have you smoking for 3 years longer than you should. It'll have you overweight. It'll have you in a job you don't want. It'll always tell you to do the comfortable thing because it's afraid of moving you into a space that's unknown. K?
Joe:Here's what you do. Find the thing you're passionate about. K? Take time every day. Instead of watching some series for 2 hours on Netflix every night, take that time to find the thing, to work on yourself.
Joe:And it doesn't need to be a difficult thing, a hardship. It's the same as kind of practicing demos or whatever it is. The thoughts of it are worse than doing it. Because the thoughts of like, well, what if nothing comes to me when I sit down? If you don't sit down and consider what you are passionate about, you'll never pursue it.
Joe:Once you do, once you take that time, it'll come to you. And then what will happen is you get the anxiety, well, maybe I shouldn't pursue it. Maybe I'll pursue it tomorrow. Push that voice out of your head once again Mhmm. And do it.
Joe:Take little steps. Find courses where you can accrue the skill that'll enable you to pursue the thing. Find community groups that that pursue the same thing, whether it's acting or it's knitting or it's starting your business or whatever it is. If you don't work hard at it, it'll never happen for you. There's nobody who achieved greatness in any field who didn't put in the hours.
Joe:I'm sorry to tell you that the see secrets of this is not a secret. It's just not that palatable. You need to find the thing you're passionate about, then you have to work really hard. But it's worth it. So the first thing I would say to do is take time to find out what is going to give your life meaning, what you want to pursue, and then take that time every day to get a little bit better at it, to the point where life would be intolerable to you if you didn't go first.
Joe:That's what will get you there. That's what will trigger you actually making that break.
Dean:Love that. And the thing I that stood out to me there was just being alright with the fact that you might not get it straight away, might not come to you. Just just but just show up a little bit each day and then maybe in 2 months or 2 weeks or tonight you might figure out, oh, shit. That could be it. Maybe that's something we could go for.
Dean:And I love Just
Joe:allow yourself to be comfortable. Don't don't when you're when you're tired or whatever it is, like, there are legitimate times when you need to rest. That's fine. But you know the time when you should be acting. And your the little voice in your head will always give you excuses why not to do it.
Joe:Don't listen to it. Be hard on yourself. It'll be worth it.
Dean:Yeah. Joe, this has been a wonderful discussion and I've loved getting under the hood with your story. You, as always, say your truth with an energy and a vigor like, like truly like no one I've met. And it's it's been a genuine pleasure to have you on the show, man.
Joe:Thank you so much. I really, really I could talk about this all day long. I I I genuinely am so, so grateful that I took the steps to get where I am. And as I say, the journey is absolutely not defined. It's not over.
Joe:It's still continuing. It will for the rest of my life, And it'll it'll be the same for everyone else. But I love talking to people about it because I drew I derive such satisfaction from it. And I am so happy for anyone else who does it. And you'll find this interesting.
Joe:When you meet other people who have pursued the things they wanted to do in life, they'll be so encouraging of you. They'll give you all the support. And be very wary of anyone who doesn't because maybe they're unhappy, and they're projecting that on you. But don't mind that. Don't give that energy.
Joe:Put your energy in the right place into the things and the people that are gonna give you the platform to be and get where you wanna be.
Dean:Joe, this has been an absolute stellar conversation. Much love, man.
Joe:Love the deal.
Dean:Thanks so much for coming on.
Joe:Anytime.
Dean:Hey. Sorry to interrupt the show. Very quick favor to ask you, if you are finding any value or even finding it slightly entertaining, please consider giving me a follow on whichever platform you're watching this or listening to it on. It really helps, especially in the early stage of growth, and I will owe you a big, big thanks.
