#20 - Bouncing Back from Rock Bottom with Chris O'Connell
Hello friends. Welcome back to another episode of work worth doing with your boy Dean. Where we aim to help you successfully navigate away from the financial shackles of a 9 to 5 and beyond. You might be coming here today to try and improve your existing business. You might be coming here today because you have no idea what you want your business to be.
Dean:Our guest today is gonna have something for you. Chris O'Connell is a UK based mentor, adviser, podcaster, recruitment expert, and father. He was a multimillionaire in his mid twenties and has advised and scaled over 60 recruitment companies, has 73,000 followers on linkedin and also lost everything to one of the dragons from dragon's den. His story is wild and his comeback to where he is now is even more insane. What you can expect to walk away from the episode with is an understanding of how Chris leveraged his existing skills to start his first business and quit his job.
Dean:Why he took one of the members of Dragon's Den to the high court. How he bounced back from losing a 25,000,000 pound business. And why you should focus on purpose over profit. So I promise you get your notepad out, maybe even get your Kleenex out because this one is crazy. Before we get in, just a quick note to mention, we're officially at episode 20, which maybe you've heard once or twice before is this kind of weird cliff where podcasters tend to drop off apparently.
Dean:And only, like, 1% make it past this point. So we've hit a milestone. So this is cool. Thank you if this is your first episode or if it's your 20th. I appreciate you for joining.
Dean:And if you've enjoyed it, if you're taking any value, the only small favor I would ask is to share it with a mate. You might have somebody who's starting a business. You might have a friend who's vocalized to you that they just hate their job. And they wish they were doing something else. And they want more from their life.
Dean:If you think they would take value from this, all I ask is that you share it with them. So without further ado, let's get into this. You are going to love this one. Please welcome Chris O'Connor. Chris, it's good to find a mutual person.
Dean:It is. And I've been stalking you for quite some time now. Brilliant. That's a good thing.
Chris:I'm I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Dean:Yeah, man. It's a pleasure. Do you like coming into London for this type of stuff?
Chris:I come into London, at least once a week now. I live in Bristol, but I love coming to London and and visiting. I wouldn't necessarily wanna live here anymore, but because I love Bristol. But London, yeah, it's, it's where a lot of the good people are, I think.
Dean:Yeah. I mean, I thought Bristol was cool.
Chris:Yeah. Bristol was a great city. I moved there 25 years ago, and, it's good for music, good for restaurants. It's, it's yeah. You gotta live there to appreciate it, but it's got a lot going for, actually.
Dean:The only reason I went down actually, I think, back was to see Arctic Monkeys last year or 2 years ago?
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Jirayataki? Yeah.
Chris:No. But they were there. Ronnie Sizes from there. There's loads of famous people from there, you know.
Dean:Yeah. Yeah. So before we get into the sale of your 25,000,000 pound recruitment business, I wanna just go back and kind of frame all this because you've got a cool story and there's like loads of ups, loads of downs, and I wanna get into that. But I think it's good to shape it Sure. And premise it.
Dean:So you worked in s three recruitment. You did that for 5 years before starting Timothy James. Yeah. Timothy James is, its its own beast as I know.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:But what initially made you want to go it alone?
Chris:Well, I mean, if if you don't mind, I'll I'll paint you a picture of my entire story from childhood and kinda because that kind of, yeah, basically explains the reason why. I mean, I was I I was born into quite a poor family. We lived in a caravan, and, my dad used to work on the railways, at night. He came home, after a long shift. I was 2 at this time.
Chris:My brother was 3. We've been left there all night on on our own. I was abandoned by my mom, and my dad wasn't able to look after us, so I was fostered for 4 years. So that kind of already from a very young age, right, I was I was kind of forced to stand on my own 2 feet. You know?
Chris:My dad wasn't able to look after us. So I was fostered. He then remarried, and, that woman was very abusive to me. So the first two female figures in my life, my mom abandoned me, and my stepmom used to beat me up and abuse me. It made me feel unworthy.
Chris:It made me feel shy. It made me feel rejected, abandoned, and all these kind of horrible kind of feelings came to the surface.
Dean:Did you only realize that in later life?
Chris:Well, no. Yeah. I had no concept of anything, really. I wasn't taught how to love, I wasn't taught how to communicate properly. So I joined the S3 Group, which I can talk about, was their worldwide top biller.
Chris:And because of what happened to me in my younger younger childhood, it almost gave me the the the the the the the drive to think I'm the only person that can make a difference. I'm the only person that can, make a success for myself. It kinda gave me the drive and the confidence to say, you might as well do it on your own, because ever even if your own mom shits on you and your stepmom does that, you know, you can't really trust anybody. So in a paradoxical way, what happened to me gave me my drive, but also at s 3, because I was knocking the doors off. I was their worldwide top biller, building nearly £1,000,000 a year across 5,000 consultants.
Chris:You know, I just thought,
Dean:why would I why would I
Chris:not do this for, you know, for myself? So, that was a combination of those two things, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:So that seems to be common in recruitment as well. People seem to, like, do it, do it well, and then do it for themselves.
Chris:Yeah. But there's a big difference between being a being a top pillar and being a manager or a leader or and then the next step, you know, actually running your own business. Yeah. And since, building that business to 25,000,000 and then selling it, I I've now evolved into advising recruitment leaders how to build, scale, and grow. And, and I think that's a natural evolution for me.
Chris:But, yeah, you're right. I think a lot of people think they can do it. Yeah. And, the reality is very different sometimes.
Dean:So you you were would you say you were shaped then by those early years whereby you just thought, I don't wanna rely on anyone else anymore because of what happened to you?
Chris:Yeah. I I abs absolutely. It it gave me it kinda gave me trust issues. It gave me control issues. Yeah.
Chris:It gave me mental health problems and challenges and everything else. I was attracting the wrong women in my life. So business wise, I was exceptional. I mean, to be s three's worldwide top biller is is no mean feat.
Dean:I mean,
Chris:to build a £25,000,000 business, is is is is amazing. But, I then lost that business, and we can talk about that. But I think I think, yeah, I think it shaped me into the person I am today. I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't change that.
Dean:Yeah. Yeah. So I wanna just stay on that, like, part when you left because I do wanna get into that sale Yeah. Of that business. Believe me, I really wanna get into that.
Dean:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know that's crazy. But, like, the the one of the themes of this show or at least intentions of this show is is to help somebody just get through that initial phase, that part of being like, right, I know I'm here.
Dean:And in your case, it might be I was pushed because of the previous circumstances in my life. For another person, it might be, I just don't love what I'm doing, and I wanna do something I care about.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:How did you manage, like, the first actions that you took when you were like, okay. I know I'm quitting here. I know I'm gonna get out. What were the first few things you did? Can you remember?
Chris:Well, I I I had a business plan ready, and I was I was going to kind of sort of do it on my own, maybe seek a bit of investment to help me. Yeah. But, I was then contacted by a guy called Pete who worked at the same business before, and he said, why don't you come to Bristol and have a chat? I'm ready to go. I've got my business plan ready.
Chris:I went, okay. I got to his house and his business plan was like 3 lines long. I said, mate, that's not a business plan. But what what it transpired was, we were a really good combination. He had lots of experience placing perm people.
Chris:I had lots of experience placing contract people. And we just got together and thought, actually, you know, we are a good partnership, 2 heads are better than 1. So we joined forces, and the first action was really just to try and get some deals in, just get some money on the board. We did spend a lot of time looking at the logo, and then we thought, thought, no. What?
Chris:You know, it's not the logo is not important. We came up with our middle names as the business name, and, you know, ultimately, it was about just, we got we got we got a cheap office just getting on phones and making it happen. Yeah. And once we got some business coming in, then it was about getting the right people around us. And how we accelerated was having good margins, having, a good business plan, a good a good, market map, but also we hired some very good people that would probably better us in certain areas, and that enabled us to accelerate.
Dean:So did you have, like, a a crossover period where you were working in the business as well as your own? Yeah.
Chris:Or did you just go off at work? Well, my my my, my forte was billing at back then. So we decided that I would I would sort of do most of the sales, and Pete would do most of the back office stuff. And for the 1st 2 or 3 years, I was the top bidder of the business. And then it got to a point where we had 5, 6, 7, 8 people, and I had to start to lead.
Chris:And then we we kinda I cut I kinda cut the apron strings a little bit. I mean, even to this day, I still love being involved. And I I teach my CEOs not to be involved, but, I think you get to a certain point where, you have to learn, adapt, and evolve as a leader, and you've got to trust your people around you to do it. So, I kinda learned that. And, so, yeah, after, like, 3 or 4 years, I wasn't billing at all, really.
Chris:I was just motivating driving and and and pushing The team
Dean:that you
Dean:were building? Yeah.
Dean:Yeah.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:Do you remember the day when you got your first pound that you earned it?
Chris:I do actually. It was a business called Laupack. They were like a paper printer firm, like only a small outfit, and they paid us, like, 3 and a half grand to place a print manager, and they paid us by check, and we framed it. When that check came through, it was like it felt it felt so good. It was some may amazing experience, and we kind of, like, wow, we, you know, we kinda made it kinda thing.
Chris:It was it was a really really good moment.
Dean:Mhmm. Yeah.
Chris:So yeah. And we we had some we had some ups and downs along the way. We had some difficult times.
Dean:Did you ever nearly quit? Did you ever nearly quit?
Chris:Not not not quit, but, I mean, one time we we couldn't actually afford to pay our team, but one of our clients paid us 30 grand twice by mistake. So we paid the team. And we then did eventually tell the client we paid it back, but it's kinda that was a bit of luck. Obviously, being in business with somebody, it's it's it's not all champagne and roses kind of thing. It's like having a marriage.
Chris:You have ups and downs. We have dis disagreements. We have different opinions, which which was which was good to have different opinions, but also sometimes there was conflict. But ultimately, I think that, we won 14 industry awards, you know. I was Southwest Entrepreneur of the Year.
Chris:To get it to that level, you know, even to this day, it probably still hasn't sunk in, to to be honest with you. You know, when I'm retired and old and a bit older, I would probably give myself a pat on the back for it. But I was I was so determined. I got to 5,000,000, 10, 15, 20. And every time I got there, I was like, right, come on.
Chris:Let's go. I kind of, like, I celebrated for a day and then moved on. And I think that was important to important to to say to our team, if you've done something well, how can we improve it? That drive. You need that drive.
Chris:You if you ask me what you need to be successful in business, I think it's it's you gotta have that belief, that drive. For example, we had 4 or 5 I think 5 or 6 people, and we're outgrowing our office, our small office. And then we we looked at this 6,000 square foot office. We walked in there with the team, and they said, which part of it is ours? I said, mate, all of it.
Chris:It was it it could fill you could put a 100 people in this office. We just had that, and we moved in, and we and we filled it out within a few years. And it's it's having that kind of I think I think where it worked was I was I was the one that if we had just enough money to to to hire 4 people, I'd say we hire 6. Whereas Pete was like, well, if you if only have to hire 4, we're gonna hire 1. And we met in the middle.
Chris:And I think that kind of mixture of, you know, entrepreneurial, let's just fucking do it, versus hang on a second, let's be sensible, somewhere in the middle is probably about right.
Dean:A mixture of blind optimism and something else that's
Chris:But I just don't think you can be I think entrepreneur most entrepreneurs are not cautious. They they they they go for it and they take risks. I'm assuming regret something I've done or something I haven't done, know, and I think that's that's why we were successful.
Dean:I actually think I lean more into your side of that probably to my detriment. You know, there's I think there's the it's the yin and the yang of building your own business. You do kinda need a bit of both and whether you have it yourself or it comes in the form of a business partner like you you do here.
Chris:Yeah. No. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, we took risks, man.
Chris:But, do you know what I love though?
Dean:I love that you had just a skill set that you recognize. You're like, I'm good at this. Yeah. Let's do it myself.
Chris:Oh, no. Absolutely. I think I think I I had this insatiable belief, and I think I think because of what happened to me, when I was on the phone to a CEO, I didn't put them as inferior or superior. I just had a conversation with them. And what I found was, like, when I met ever met my clients in person, they couldn't believe it was me because on the phone I sounded like this 45 year old, really experienced person.
Chris:But back then I didn't have a beard, and I looked about 12. And I think I think I think and that's the thing. I think I think that, you can sell anything if you do it in the right way, with the right tone, the right belief, right right right conviction. But, mindset is is just so important, isn't it, in in in life? And, yeah, I think also as well, I was a very although I was a I I kind of put my suit on and became this confident, stoic, ruthless, dynamic human and took my suit off.
Chris:I was just completely different person.
Dean:What do you mean?
Chris:What I mean by that is that, I'm I'm actually an introvert. I don't I don't like social gatherings. I I get social anxiety, all that kind of stuff. But I think that it almost became a performance, if you like. I just kind of I I found recruitment, being a leader, being a business owner.
Chris:It was almost like an escape from my true feelings. So to go a bit deeper into this, you know, I I I I, I was an abandoned child. I was an abused child. I was a multimillionaire at 26, 27, 28. I had the cars, the watches, the houses, earning 1,000,000, you know, on the face of it, had everything.
Chris:But the reality 1,000,000, you know, on the face of it had everything. But the reality that I wasn't really on the planet. And when I lost my business, and I'll tell you how that happened in a moment, I was forced to feel. I was forced to look inside and look at what the fuck I'm doing, what's my purpose. And, I stopped putting that mask on.
Chris:The the suit was no longer a mask. And now if if if you see me on LinkedIn, I'm a different man. I'm a completely different person now to I was then. I'm nowhere near as rich financially now, although I'm clawing my way back up. But I'm rich in terms of who I am as a person, you know, how I'm acting, and, the vulnerability and realness of me is, you know, I I I have to admit I was probably a bit of a dick back then.
Chris:I think people respected me to a point, but I Addicted who? Well, I just think I was I just think I think I think business wise I was doing quite I was I was I was so focused on the business. I'd send emails at 3 o'clock in the morning. I I I didn't have any sort of meaningful relationships. I was addicted myself, and I felt I could I felt I could do anything.
Chris:I probably abused my power a little bit in terms of hiring, firing, and the relationships I had. I kind of I kind of, it happened to me quite quickly, but then I defy anybody in that position not to not to let it go to your head a little bit. So there's an element of accountability there. It sounds like I'm denigrating myself, but I think that, the way the business was lost was was was terrible. But I played a part in that.
Chris:And I think I think where a good leader adds value and where I add value to myself and others is I'd sooner be I'd sooner be told by a friend, a colleague, a partner, a coach what I'm doing wrong than being sugarcoated in what I'm doing right. And this is what I teach now. It's it's it's if you can't take feedback, if you can't challenge and be challenged, you're not gonna grow.
Dean:So and you hear this a lot. Like, people who have a mask on, it has a shelf life. Yeah. It can only
Dean:Yeah.
Dean:Be done for so long before it's like your body kind of rejects it. Yeah. I've kind of felt it myself, I think, in some senses through my own twenties, like, not necessarily building a big business, but, you know, just some element of, like, okay. Am I putting on this facade on some level here? And, it catches up with you.
Chris:Yeah. And I think deep down, you know as well. And I I I, it drains you. It it causes burnout as well. It's actually harder, to not be yourself than to be yourself, and I think people shy away from that.
Dean:And I
Chris:think I've had a lot of therapy, a lot of, counseling around all this kind of stuff, and I can now see it in my life. I can I can see the people that they even say they're authentic? They have to tell people that
Dean:when you
Chris:have to tell someone you're authentic, you know, it's a bit bit worrying. Yeah.
Dean:Yeah. So, So, okay, you you get to this point. You have 1,000,000. Yeah. You're sending emails at 3 AM.
Dean:You're rappelling or attracting the wrong women, I should say. All this Yeah. Kind of, you know, on the surface looks good, but to you, you know you're kind of in
Dean:in the wrong place, let's say.
Dean:Was that different to what you actually wanted when you started that business?
Chris:No. I think I think probably not, actually. I mean, I I I wanted to build the most successful and biggest recruiting business I I could. I was passionate about that. And
Dean:Why do you think you wanted that?
Chris:Because I wanted it for the wrong reasons. I wanted it because I probably wanted to prove my worth to the world, and I thought I could prove my worth to the world by how much money I had, how much how many cars, watches, houses I had. And I soon realized that that didn't mean anything and didn't really impress anybody. And losing all of that was probably the best thing that happened to me. So I I I think that it was probably an escape as well, because I hadn't I hadn't processed all the all the trauma that I had, and I was covering that trauma up by by by shiny things.
Chris:On one hand, the trauma gave me the drive, but it gave me the drive to kind of almost, you know, not not show off, but have the material win. And don't get me wrong, I love, the still love all the nice stuff, but I I I think that, purpose is more important than profit. If you put purpose at at the forefront, you get the you should get the profit anyway. But if you only focus on the profit and the money, you need to be money focused. About that's all that's all you do, you end you end up, like, resenting a lot of things.
Dean:I actually remembered that myself when I got away from the 9 to 5 that I was in, which was sales, and I got into property, which is how I sort of financially allowed myself to leave. Yeah. I, you know, over time realized I was it dawned on me that, okay, I'm not necessarily financially driven in that sense. I don't want to devote my life to just doing something over and over and over again just to receive money.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:Like you said, I would rather do something that I actually derive meaning from that will eventually pay, you know, financially off the back. Yeah. So I can really relate
Chris:to that. No. I think if you ask me what success is, I think I think a lot of people measure it on money and how much money you're earning and your self worth. And I do I do think money is important. It's one of the facets, one of the 6 facets that I coach.
Chris:I think it's really, really important. But I think I think I think the impact you have on people, I think how you feel about yourself and how you make others feel is is is success, isn't it? And, you know, if you wake up each morning and you're actually happy, really happy, bit Gary Vaynerchukky, isn't it? But, you know, there's guys out there that are only 50, 60, $70, and they're they're absolutely chuffed to bits. And there's guys earning 50, 60, 70,000,000, and they've just depressed us.
Dean:Dude, I saw the photo of you. You put it on Linkedin.
Chris:Yeah, man. Happy Chris. When I got that, I think it's one of the most viral posts ever. It had nearly 300,000 likes, 21,000,000 views. What?
Chris:10 1000 Jesus. 10,000 comments and 1,000 something repost. It was it's it's
Dean:So relatable, man. It's the story of as old as time itself.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:You see it with fucking Conor McGregor.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gets all
Dean:the fame, gets all the money. Yeah. Realize it. It was like I mean, I don't know what's going through his head. But Yeah.
Dean:When I saw the photo of you, I thought, wow, the difference in those 2 men in those photos.
Chris:See, the thing is now, right, I've talked to the last 4 or 5 years about fame not being important, all that kind of stuff, but I I actually I've now got my hunger back and I I I just feel I'm so much more well equipped to handle all these kind of things now. So I I I think it was a genuine test. I I believe in in this kind of stuff, and I feel, I'm actually chuffed it's happened to me now because I feel like, god, if I knew then what I knew now Yeah. But that's life, ain't it?
Dean:You're calloused by these things. And I think because you're calloused, you have value to then offer others Yeah. Through those struggles.
Chris:Yeah. And it's interesting that the tax that I chose to take, because how it happened to me, to the average person, I think not many people would have come back from that. So I think my my where I am now is a bigger achievement than the s three thing, which is amazing, and the 25,000,000 thing, which is amazing. But to come back and do what I've done, I think. But I kinda chose to be open about it.
Chris:I chose to be vulnerable about it. I chose to say I lost my business. I was this, this, this, and this. And I actually think that that was probably one of the best decisions I made because I've now built a massive following on LinkedIn. I've got 73,000 followers.
Chris:I've got 2 or 3,000,000 views a month. And people kind of like I think, you know, LinkedIn, mate, is is like a it's it's it's a kaleidoscope of shit sometimes, isn't it? And I and I tried to cut through I tried to cut through the noise and and and be myself, you know.
Dean:I think this is a good opportunity for us to touch on you losing it on. Right. Right? Let's go in because, you know, you've you've described the picture of what a lot of people might think that they want. Big business, loads of money, paying yourself plenty above.
Dean:You're doing, you know, 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 and millions getting awards.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:What what could possibly go wrong?
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:And then you have the this sale then that happens. Yeah. And I saw you said on Dodge, Dodge's podcast about that it happened with the former Dragon's Den panelist.
Chris:I'm a
Dean:big fan of that show.
Dean:I love that. It's one
Chris:of my favorite shows.
Dean:Yeah. I love it. It could just churn out episodes of that. But why did you wanna sell it?
Chris:Well, we got we got to 25,000,000. We we had a London office, a Manchester office, and a Bristol office. I was talking to a guy in Australia. I want to open us up up over there in Paris. I wanted to, like, go crazy.
Chris:Our business partner walked in one day. He just had his 3rd charge. Chris, I don't wanna do it anymore. I was like, mate, what the fuck? I couldn't afford to buy him out.
Chris:We're 50.50 shareholders, so we had to find a buyer for him. We had a great buyer. They then pulled out, and then this guy came along, James Khan from Dragon's Den. I've been open about this. Bought 5th bought Pete's 50% out.
Chris:I stayed on as CEO, kept my 50%, and then it just became very, very difficult to work with him and his vehicle. They tried to oust my COO, tried to oust me. They tried to cut cut costs beyond anything. They they made up that certain gross misconduct charges against me. I was on honeymoon.
Chris:I got a call saying, come into my office next week. You're suspended from your business. You can't speak to any of your team. You're under investigation. So, mate, he he he honestly, he'd then then I had to take him to the high court.
Chris:It it it cost me $66100, took 4 years. I was 2 weeks away from getting to the high court and run out of money. And he knew that. So I had to do a due out of court for peanuts, which didn't even cover my legal costs. So I lost the business, which is worth 20 odd 1000000 quid.
Chris:Got divorced, moved out of the family home with 2 bin bags, sticking on mate's sofas, lost access to my children as well, sold all my houses, was nearly bankrupt, and tried to end my life 3 or 4 times. I was absolutely fucked mentally, physically, emotionally, financially. You know, the whole thing was really exposed, and I was lost, man. I was absolutely lost. And it transpired that this individual has done it to other individuals, and there's been some some travesty and tragedies going on with that beyond me.
Chris:But, I don't care now about talking about it, although I'm not supposed to apparently legally. But I'm beyond that. He can come off me if he really wants to. Sure. And that'll be interesting if he does.
Chris:But, I was I was in a real bad way, and, so I lost it. And then I it took me 2 or 3 years to even get out of bed, mate, to be honest with you. I had a horrible divorce. All this kind of stuff was going on with parental alienation. So then I came on to link back onto LinkedIn about 4 years ago, and I was invited to do a webinar, and I chose to do vulnerability leadership.
Chris:I started talking about this kind of stuff. I started to open up and started to get a few likes and comments, and then it just went crazy. And since then, I've I've I've helped over 60 recruitment businesses build, scale, and grow. I'm I'm known as one of the top, recruitment advisers in in in in in the market. And I've done that through a mixture of my background, my skill set.
Chris:Not many people have built a £25,000,000 business pound business and sold it. I did actually sell it. But I've done it I've done it in a way where I think I don't know. I think I've got a mixture of that that that that drive, the entrepreneurialism, but that realness as well, man. Yeah.
Chris:So, I'm very proud of my comeback, and I feel this is just a starting point now because I for the first time in my I'm 47 now. For the first time in my life, I started to understand that I'm I'm really good at what I do. Even though I've done all these things, I never believed it. I've got my self worth, I've got my confidence, and I'm not gonna play small anymore. What I mean
Dean:people say, well, what do
Chris:you mean playing small? You've done this, this, this, and this. I I up until recently, I still felt I wasn't good enough. And it's all been a bit of an imposter thing going on. But only 2 weeks ago, I was doing my first speaking gig at the massive recruitment expo in front of loads of people, and I felt so good about that.
Chris:So I'm ready now to and I've all got the tools, the experience, the bruises, the scars to go from where I am now to something even more. What that looks like, I don't know yet, but yeah.
Dean:Even just your story alone, like, that is powerful to share that, to share that you've been through something so difficult. Yeah. Like, the divorce like, even just the fact that there was a divorce
Dean:in
Dean:there as well. Was that was that actually, like, happening because of that? Was that happening alongside it?
Chris:No. It's I think it's it's it's all at the same time. It all happened kind of at the same time, really. It wasn't because of that. No.
Chris:It's but, like, the perfect storm, losing the business, having the divorce, financial stuff. And, you know, at the time, it was like it was big news, you know. So, you know, I I felt embarrassed by by the whole thing. And, I'm very very very proud of of it. I just I I think back now, I get quite emotional, like, to to to to to to lose all of that is is is difficult.
Chris:But then I I then I I I give my head a wobble and go, come on, mate. You've got arms and legs and all this kind of stuff. You've got a roof over your head. And I've gone so grateful now for the things that I've got. My children, beautiful children, I see a lot, and I try to add value now.
Chris:I try to I try to, like I don't I think I think people used to think I was telling my story for sympathy, but I'm not. I'm I'm doing every time I tell it, it helps me process it. I think I think it adds something to to people's lives where, you know, you can come back. It's not too late. You know, this too shall pass.
Chris:And so in a funny sort of way, I I think if my mom didn't do what she did to me, my stepmom didn't do what she did to me, I don't think I'd had I would have had the resilience to come back. So in a bizarre way, it's like, thank god that happened.
Dean:Because I
Chris:would have been I don't think I would have been anywhere near where
Dean:I am now. Did you take it personally, the whole Which bit? The being ousted, the kind of being forced out of your company, and then the eventual sale for Peanuts in the 2 years.
Chris:I did at the start, and then I thought, well, hang on a second. It wasn't necessarily a personal thing. I mean, the business was built on a 75% contract, but what I mean by that is that we had consistent recurring revenue for years years years. So they just they they they just saw the business, whether it was whether I was the best CEO in the world or the worst CEO in the world, I think they would have tried to engineer something. And I I just think they saw the business as an amazing cash cow opportunity where they could acquire it for next to nothing, get rid of the founders, and just
Dean:What was in it for them by removing you?
Chris:Well, they wouldn't have to I mean, I was on a massive salary. I had a 50% stake in the business. So they they they would they got half the business for free. You know what I mean? So I didn't I didn't get the the the I should've got 10, 15, 20,000,000 quid, but I got nothing.
Chris:I got nothing. So they they acquired the business for nothing, getting me out the way, and then they got all the revenue. So they basically,
Dean:but how did they get your 50%?
Chris:As I said, so they bought Pete's 50% out for for a 7 figure sum. So he got taken care of. Yeah. Because, there were gross misconduct charges, I had to defend myself against those charges because I couldn't. They were saying, well, you are now exited from your business.
Chris:Based on that, we have enough against you to exit your business without having to pay fair value for your shares, which obviously wasn't the case. But they engineered it in in such a way where if I fought it, I probably would have won to the end and got the money, but I didn't have enough money to actually fight it. And they knew that. In order to get something to
Dean:the high court, because it's such a big
Chris:transaction, it costs 100 of 1,000 of pounds. So they knew exactly what they were doing. They they knew what they were doing was wrong, but they also knew that I didn't have the the the the the capacity, the financial capacity, or probably mental capacity up to 4 years of that, you know. Imagine I mean, imagine imagine, like, being a CEO and then have the whole industry sector kind of talking about you and this going on for 4 years. It was just, like, in the end, I kind of I just I just I just collapsed.
Chris:I just okay. I'll I'll just take this because
Dean:I wanted
Chris:to stop it. So they they they did it in a way that was very clever. It's
Dean:the whole time you're saying that, I'm just thinking to myself, how can like, is is there just a complete void of empathy? Do they not see a human being on the other side? Is it just pure numerical
Chris:It's all about the money. Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
Dean:Wow, man. And I honestly genuinely mean this. I kudos to you for sticking it through and being able to sit across from me here right now and share it on a podcast, man. It's incredible. Appreciate it.
Dean:Thank you, man. So you you've obviously done quite well as you said. You know, you've now started to share the story. Yeah. On LinkedIn, you've got 73,000 followers.
Chris:Yeah. Not
Dean:too bad. Pretty good on LinkedIn.
Dean:Not bad.
Chris:Not bad.
Dean:What if somebody wants to start posting and, like, you know, become more visible online? Would they just think, oh, yeah, but my story is shit?
Chris:Yeah. I think it's not an easy thing to do. It's taken me, you know, a good few years to to to to build the confidence. But I think it's like with anything, if you don't start, you don't start. And, actually, I think that it's a it's it's a mindset thing.
Chris:It's about what's your intention to post? Your intention my intention to post used to be about, how many likes I would get. You know? Now it's about what value I can add. So I think remove what the what the outcome what you want the outcome to be.
Chris:And most people post on LinkedIn because they want they want attention. They want business. So I think the answer is just a start. And when you start, you might get one like, 2 likes, 3 likes. You're not gonna get 50, 100.
Chris:You're not gonna get the engagement. It's like with anything. Like going to the gym, when you start, you can hard you can hardly lift a weight. After you've done 5 months, you can lift more weights. So I know it sounds a bit of a basic answer.
Chris:I think you've just got to start and be consistent and and be consistent and go through the motions where you're not getting much engagement. But if you're putting out good quality posts on a
Dean:consistent basis, people will
Chris:come to you. And that's what happened to me. I when I first started out, I was getting nothing. Nothing. And now and it's just it's just it's it's a long game.
Chris:It doesn't you don't become an overnight sensation or success or build anything worthwhile with, oh, I posted one post. I only got 4 likes. My my my world is doomed. Everyone doesn't like me. My story is shit.
Chris:If you think like that, that's what's gonna happen.
Dean:That seems to be like the first or the most difficult thing for people is when the and I and I do get this, by the way, because I was there myself, you
Chris:know, the
Dean:first wall of resistance comes up and all of a sudden you're like, bah, the world is fucked. I'm I'm out of here. Fuck this. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:And and it's it's hard, man. And especially with posting online, it's quite exposing. It is. You're in your own head. What's everyone saying about me?
Dean:Everyone's probably laughing. I'm an idiot. I'm this. I'm that.
Chris:Yeah. But the truth is they're not, mate. Honestly, the truth is, mate, I used to go through all of that kind of stuff, and they they don't give up. They don't give up monkeys. They're more interested in their own stuff, really.
Chris:So there's so many there's tens of thousands of people out there. It's almost like, what makes me think that everyone's thinking about me anyway? They're not
Dean:So what would you say then, right, to previous Chris? He had never started a company. K. And you can have a quick chat with him now. What would you say to him, like a piece of advice to set him on the path to Yeah.
Dean:Victory?
Chris:I I used to think when I was doing it that I was the oracle of all knowledge and, I didn't really have any coaches around me, you know. I didn't I didn't have any training really necessarily. I didn't have any investment. So I think the first thing is if you got the if you got some money, invest in people that are ahead of you. Have coaches around you.
Chris:Have people that are better than you that you that if you don't wanna be the most knowledgeable or best person in the room, even though you're the CEO, I think it's important to surround yourself with people, but also don't put all your eggs in the business basket. What I mean by that is you have to be ultra focused, dedicated, organized, and passionate about your business. But if your relationship's outside of work is shit, they're probably gonna be the same inside of work. If you're not working out, doing exercise, looking after yourself inside, outside of work, it's the same. So I think I think it's about being the CEO of your life, not just your business.
Chris:So business is really important to me. So what I learned was, so the moment I started to eat eat the right eat the right foods, do the right exercise, do the personal development, invest in my relationships, I became a better human being. So then I was ex executing a lot better in work as well. So, sometimes you think the the best thing to do is the next business task. It might the best thing to do might be to take 2 hours out, have a strategy meeting away from the business, or go for a walk, go for a run, come back.
Chris:Because you can get to I think sometimes you get too embroiled in it that you you don't execute. And you're only doing I think it's so important not to just be transactional and do the weekly and the daily and the monthly stuff. Sometimes you need to step out and go, you know, what strategic move can I make? You know, how can I I think that's really important?
Dean:But what if the person listening hasn't actually even got to the point of being a business owner? What if they're just stuck in the job and they know they're not destined to be here? They know they weren't put here to do this for their whole life.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:What do you say to that person? Action.
Chris:You can talk about it till you're blue in the face, and you don't know till you try. So a bit like getting into a swimming pool when you first you don't wanna go in there. You you put your toe in there, it's freezing. Once you've got your body under, you love it. You start swimming.
Chris:It's beautiful. It's warm. It's great. So I think I think I think without being too, crass about it,
Dean:I
Chris:think start. It's hard though, man.
Dean:It's hard at the start. You've got us you've got no proof.
Chris:Anything worthwhile is hard to start. I mean, I've got a 100 episode podcast myself and I didn't even think about doing a podcast.
Dean:And then
Chris:someone said, I think you should. And I did one. I absolutely loved it.
Dean:So I
Chris:think I think it's I think it's about, what do you want out of life? And I think that when when when I when I started to kind of do the things I said I was gonna do, it built my confidence. And you you might start and you might fail. So what? You learn and you grow.
Dean:So But failure equals bad.
Chris:In whose in whose opinion?
Dean:I don't know why it's in all our heads.
Chris:No. I think if you speak to, I think it's Kobe Bryant, isn't it, or is it, another basketball player? Failure failure isn't isn't isn't bad. Failure is a stepping stone to success. You know, I've probably I've had way more failures than I had successes.
Chris:Without the failures, I wouldn't have got the successes.
Dean:I agree. No. And and I say that in jest. And and actually a former guest who was on the podcast, Henry, he he has a podcast called Fail Forward, and he just constantly talks about how, like, you've just there's you think you've done the last one, you think you've made your last mistake, there's a bit 100 more coming next week. You're gonna mess up, but just keeping going.
Dean:And that I honestly think that is, like, persistence is just one of the skills you need. Just just just keep showing up.
Chris:No. Absolutely.
Dean:You know?
Chris:And even when you do when you have started the business as well and you might get some traction at the start, you've got to you've got perseverance, you've got to keep going all the time. Absolutely.
Dean:I think purpose is a conversation that comes up on this podcast a lot. You know, I advocate for people to try and build a business because I think when you are a business owner, you have a degree of flexibility far larger than that when you have a 9 to 5 role. Yeah, it's just infinitely larger. And therefore, with that freedom, you can maybe the business, let's say the business isn't your purpose. The business just could be the vehicle that allows you to then find your purpose.
Chris:Yeah, absolutely.
Dean:And that's kind of like what I have done in my end. I mentioned that I kind of use property to kind of segue way out, springboard to here. Yeah. And now I'm doing something that I feel really connected to. Mhmm.
Dean:And that's what I wanna share with people is, hey, you can kinda just grid it out for a couple of years.
Chris:So true.
Dean:You don't have to build Amazon. You You don't. You don't have to reinvent wheels.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:Really simple.
Chris:But purpose can can move and shake and and change and adapt and evolve, and you're right. I think I think when when I ask people what their purpose is and they come out with like things like I wanna get a house and a car, and it's like, that's not that's not purpose.
Dean:You know, as
Chris:you rightly say, the the vehicle is is you know, so you're doing that probably to have some freedom. You know? So I'm doing it because I wanna spend more time with my children. I wanna go on holiday more. I wanna go and explore the world.
Chris:I wanna travel. I wanna I wanna do stuff. So I think business is a byproduct of of of of your purpose. Because what happens when your your your goal is to build a business to 25,000,000, you get there. What often happens is, well, what the hell am I gonna going to do now?
Chris:You know, there's got to be a meaning behind it, I think.
Dean:I think that's how you keep going then, because if you're building a business of 25,000,000, great. But what business are you building? Do you love that business?
Chris:Do you love what it's for?
Dean:Do you love what it's about? Do you love who it impacts?
Chris:Yeah. There's so many people in this world and I was one of them where, you know, they're going through the motions that we're getting our paychecks on a monthly basis, spending it, getting our paychecks on a monthly. There's no reason. There's no there's no kind of meaning behind that. And I say so as I say, like, money is important to me, but I just feel like I'm really enjoying myself as a human being because I'm invited on these podcasts.
Chris:Doing this is great, you know. Yeah. This is it's just doing stuff like this where I can get feedback on, you know, offering someone some wisdom and having a chat, learning learning from you as well, learning from people, and that's that's that's that's the more purpose led, I think, than how much money you've got in the bank.
Dean:Do you feel better day to day now about what you do? Much better.
Chris:Much better. I just I just I'm really enjoying I'm not getting dozens of compliments I mean, I get dozens of compliments on my LinkedIn on on a daily basis. They love my content because but in a real way, I think. So I I I I've got much more respect for me as a human being now than what I had 10, 15 years ago. And that's reflecting in my business relationships, my personal relationships.
Chris:Well, I'm a better father than what I was. So if you was to ask me what I would say to the the the 3 or 4 year old Chris is, I love you, Chris. And I actually love myself now for the first time in my life. Whereas before, I don't think I did because I wasn't taught how to even do that.
Dean:I think
Chris:if I didn't love myself, no one no one else is gonna do that.
Dean:Probably because of what you're doing now as well.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. No. It is it is good. And, but I'm still I'm still I'm still evolving.
Chris:I'm still learning. And, I still have anxious moments a lot. And I I probably done more on the surface of things than a lot of people, but I still feel an element of inferiority that's waning a little bit. I actually all also think that's a good thing as well, because I haven't got I don't think I have got the arrogance. You know, sometimes well, I think what I had before was I'm the best.
Chris:I I'm unstoppable. And, you know, when when you stop thinking like that, when you think you know everything, you know, fuck all.
Dean:So how has your social life evolved over the years? Oh, my I used to be party animal,
Chris:drink, drugs, all sorts of stuff. And I still love going out and doing all the usual stuff. I'm very I'm quiet, mate. I just don't do much at all really now. I don't really drink anymore.
Chris:I do a little bit now and again, but I don't really go out to be honest, and quite boring. I do do my gym. I have eat out sometimes. Sometimes I have dinner parties. How
Dean:long do you work each day?
Chris:Much less than what I did, mate. I probably work 5 or 6 hours a day. And I'm I'm I'm earning decent money. I've got you know, I I make sure my I do my PT sessions every day. I've got flexibility, mate, and I can't really control my own.
Chris:You can't really put a price on that, as you said earlier. Although the government are making it really hard to be an entrepreneur, all these taxes at the moment, it's still way better than, you know, working for an environment you don't wanna be working in. And, but I've still got that drive as well. But, yeah, I mean, when you ask me that question,
Dean:I give you
Chris:that answer. I think, buddy, I'm quite lucky really to be in that position,
Dean:you know.
Chris:So I don't take that for granted either.
Dean:Man, I do think and people kinda get it's funny people get triggered when you say something like this, but I do think it's objectively better to own a business rather than to work for someone
Dean:else.
Dean:Yes. I think that's an objective truth. Yes. And you could put it in with no
Chris:always the oh, yeah. I mean, I I think that's right. I think that I think I put a post that recently where I think over the last 5 years, there's been a massive power shift from the employer to the employer.
Dean:Saw that.
Chris:Yeah. You know, when I think I think these days, mate, some of the employees of this world, like, if you ask them to actually do their job, like like, HR, you know, toxic, like like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:Did you just ask me to send an email?
Chris:Yeah. But it's not all about being entrepreneur. You know, there are some brilliant businesses out there and are some great companies that offer that flexibility and all that kind of stuff. So it's never one size fits all. Absolutely.
Dean:I agree. I I agree. And, like, when I say this, like, I say this to the person who doesn't want to be in a company. Right? Because there's a lot of people who would love to just continue working for a fun company.
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:Clock out a 5. And and and, like, I actually genuinely don't say, like, look down on anyone. Like, crack on. Enjoy that. I'm saying this to the person who doesn't wanna do it.
Dean:Yeah. You know? And it's funny. Yesterday on LinkedIn, actually, I got my hair I got a bit of heat yesterday on LinkedIn. Yeah, man.
Dean:Yeah. I think it was I I basically put up a post saying a friend of a friend, this is true, by the way, is on a 120 k a year, and she's down in the dumps stressed all day.
Dean:Yeah.
Dean:And I kinda rounded off the post by saying, look. 2 years of building a business that gets you away from this is far better than 30 years of just staying with this that will slowly kill you. Right? And you just see people coming in Yeah. Like, almost defending staying there
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:Yeah.
Dean:Saying things like
Chris:Yeah.
Dean:Oh, well, entrepreneurship is hard. I like, I mean, I sometimes wish I had a job and stuff, and I'm like, yeah. Fair. Right? And I get that.
Dean:It is hard, but, like, what's your advice here? Just don't try. Don't ever try.
Chris:As you as you grow up the the the scale on LinkedIn and you start to get traction, like, you could be mother to raise it and they'll find a fault
Dean:in it. I know.
Chris:Yeah. But I'm
Dean:like, what sort of argument does that do? Would you tell people to never try and just accept that?
Chris:Well, it's just it's just because their version of reality is that, and it's it's it's triggering them. It's triggering them, isn't it? You know, that post that we talked about earlier where, you know, it was a very positive post, but 5% of the people were still, like, they found a they find a way to criticise. You know? It's like and I used to get really triggered by that myself.
Chris:But now I'm like, I always, like, wish them luck now and wish them, you know, wish them wish them the best as opposed to I think I think on that point, I think I've I've removed lots of negativity in my life. I I've removed the bad energy, removed the the the friends that would, you know, not helpful to me. And I think I don't engage in negativity now. And I think it's how you value yourself as well. So when you get those comments, I would either ignore them or just be, you know, I think, that's that's helped me so much where I don't I'm not really affected by much now, you know.
Chris:I used to be really affected if someone was disingenuous to me or or would I now see it's like, oh, okay. How do I respond? This is it helps me become a better human being, actually.
Dean:I wasn't sure how to respond. I was like, do I go in on this guy? Yeah. Yeah.
Chris:That's what they want.
Dean:I didn't. I didn't. No. No.
Chris:No. It's difficult, isn't it? But I think I think there's a way to do it as well. I'm just there's a way to do it.
Dean:But, you know, that idea that somebody shouldn't try, I'm so against that. So against Don't don't don't stay where you are. If you really don't wanna do that, there is other ways. Yeah. You have a phone, you have a laptop.
Chris:Oh, no. Absolutely. There
Dean:you go.
Chris:I I totally agree with that. I I I think that demonizing any form of proactive risk taking is is is not for me.
Dean:And I genuinely believe, and I'd be curious to get your thoughts on this, but I believe any person can own a small little business
Chris:Absolutely.
Dean:That is operationally taken care of. They don't run it each day,
Dean:That pays
Dean:them a few bob.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:As much as their salary.
Chris:Yeah. No. Absolutely. But the thing is, you know, you're never gonna please anybody, and everybody. Yeah.
Chris:So but, yeah.
Dean:I just wanna give that to people, man. Mhmm. It's I'm like, guys, you don't realize it's actually pretty handy when you have that. Yeah. It's worth it.
Dean:It's worth 2 years of shit. Mhmm. Like, believe me, you talked about you going through the dumps, and it made me think of days when I was like, you know, I won't go too into a book. I was 40 k in the hole, and I was, like, I was 9 months into my business. And I bought a course, and I was told, oh, look.
Dean:You're gonna make 10 k in 3 fucking days. You don't know exactly that. Stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:And I was like, you know, I remember one day, I was in a bar in Hackney with my friend, and he I said to him, I was like, man, I wanna quit. I wanna quit. And I was actually I'm not saying this for a fact. I was genuinely crying in the bar. There was tears coming in my face.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah.
Dean:I was fighting it back because I felt lost. I felt so shit. And I just when you told me about your business going down, I was like, fuck. Yeah. I can't really
Chris:feel it. Yeah.
Dean:But I
Dean:think when you get through something like that Yeah. It's almost like now I feel invincible Yeah. Because I'm here now.
Chris:Yeah. You know? Absolutely. And the the tough times are are the harshest lessons, but often the best ones, you know. And I think that you remember that time now, and I think that that will also stand you in good stead in the future when something like that happens on a even a smaller scale.
Chris:You you're better equipped now to to deal with these things. And I think that, it's not what happens to us. It's how we respond. It's cheesy as anything, but it's so so true, you know. So what I'm to you for coming back from that, you know.
Dean:Likewise. Yeah.
Chris:You know. And I think also as well, I think that we can blame situations, people, circumstances. And I've had the rough end that I stick with my with my parents and the guy that saw my business and blah blah blah. But I also think that even if that's the case, even if that is the case, it's not gonna help me by constantly saying, oh, this and this and this. I think that, you you can turn things around.
Chris:I know it's easier said than done, but I still think you are in control of your own destiny.
Dean:You know, a subject that's kinda coming up just that's tying into this that I've noticed lately because I've been, like yourself, not to the same scale, but receiving some DMs now. People are getting on to me and saying like, man, I really, like, rate what you're doing, and I'm trying to help them to be like, right, well, what do you wanna do? How do you wanna get out? Right?
Dean:Yeah.
Dean:And people are just afraid of the the financial transition. They're afraid of
Chris:Yeah. Of course.
Dean:They're just afraid of so many things, man, and it just kind of blocks their mind from even ever starting.
Chris:I think though. I do I I agree, and I've been there before. But
Dean:But, like, imagine imagine imagine you, right, 15 years ago, and imagine now you had never tried. No. Who would you be now?
Chris:Oh, my god. I I thank myself for that, but this is gonna sound, quite strong. But if it's important enough, you'll find a way. If it's not, you'll find an excuse. If you really, really, really want to be this personal or do a business, you I think you'll find a way.
Chris:If you even if it's not important enough or big enough to you, then you won't. And I think that's the difference.
Dean:Do you know what the shit a sting is for a lot of people? It is just bearable enough.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But the thing is, right, you're always gonna get people that that that talk a good game or they say they wanna do it or there's a bit of jealousy and that kind of stuff. And I think it does take a certain type of person to be an entrepreneur, and sometimes you can you can you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, you know.
Dean:Yeah. So But I didn't I never fancied myself. I kinda still don't, you know, just to be very honest here. Like, I don't really think of myself as an entrepreneur.
Chris:Right.
Dean:I don't know why. I mean, I've but I
Chris:Well, how would you describe yourself then?
Dean:I'd probably describe myself as impulsive. Right. You know, in that in that sense, I am a risk taker. Therefore, maybe equals entrepreneur, but
Dean:Mhmm.
Dean:I don't know. Yeah. I don't I don't
Chris:I don't think they have it any other way, though, would you, really? Mhmm. You know, I don't I don't I don't I don't think I mean, some people do, but I would find it very difficult, almost impossible to go back to a paid job. That's not me
Dean:having to
Chris:go at people that are in that situation. I think I think once you've tried it, you you wanna almost once you've made it into that transition, you you just you're fighting and you you just wanna make a success of it, then you
Dean:You know, on the subject of going back, like, if you plug somebody into 2 years ahead and you're like, hey, look, this is what life could look like, you they'd be like, oh. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Actually, let me get to work.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. But I just I just think that you won't get anywhere without hard work either.
Chris:And this is obvious that I've I've got hard work built in into me. And I I start to I start to, wobble mentally if I'm not doing something that's progressing, or if I'm not going to the gym, or I'm not doing something that I have to feel like I'm doing something to progress. I don't even like watching TV at nighttime now because I think of course, I do have downtime, but everyone's different, right, but you're only as good as the people around you as well. Yeah. That's important.
Chris:But yeah.
Dean:Right. I hope you're enjoying the episode so far with Chris. There is about 4 or 5 minutes left where I ask Chris how you might get into a recruitment business yourself. But before I send you back in for that particular part, I want you to focus on these things from Chris' story. The first thing is how much you can bounce back from what might seem to be complete rock bottom wherever you're at right now it might seem low or maybe that's coming for you maybe that's coming for you in the next week or next month or next year I want you to remember Chris's story when you're feeling that way and know that no matter how hard it gets, you have it in you to bounce back.
Dean:What I also want you to remember is how chris and how you can use your existing skills, whatever you have now, whatever you're being paid for, to start a business, and you can grow it to 25,000,000 like chris, or you can grow it to simply just replace your salary. Existing skills. Now you can do what I did and get some new skills if you like. We don't have to. That's the point.
Dean:You have skills and people pay you for them. 3rd thing, try and focus on purpose. Bring it in to what you're doing. Remember why you're doing what you're doing. That could be intrinsic to the vehicle itself, maybe you're trying to help people with their businesses like I am.
Dean:Maybe you're trying to create a better life for your family. Maybe that's your purpose. Just remember what you're doing all of this for and let that guide you. So those are the 3 things. Remember, you can bounce back.
Dean:Remember that you've got existing skills and try and focus on purpose. It really, really does help steer the ship. Last thing, if you enjoy the audio version of these, if you enjoy the subjects that we touch on I do have a newsletter that you can sign up to it is in my Instagram bio hey Dean Riley. Go in there pop your email in and I will send you one email per week and very last thing if you have enjoyed the episode please go up at the top left corner of spotify or apple and give it a rating that is a huge way to help. Thank you.
Dean:I'm gonna send you back in for the last few minutes where I ask Chris that question and I'll see you on the next one. So let's say the person listening is just they're inspired and they're ready. They're like, you know, fuck. Yeah. Let's do something.
Dean:How could you potentially help them? Let's say they were thinking about building a recruitment business. Yeah. I actually have a friend who I spoke to earlier today who is is a recruiter, and I was telling him about coming here to meet you. And I was like, Benny, you have the skills.
Dean:You can build. Yeah. What do you do? Like, how could you help somebody to transition if they wanted?
Chris:Well, I think it's really important. A lot of recruitment companies say they're specialists, they're not. So find a market, stick to that market, and map out the market really, really well. I think have a proper BD plan, so a day plan, a week plan, a night day plan. Be very, very organized in what you're doing, and set yourself some weekly criteria.
Chris:How do you know whether you've had a good week or not? And I I help people with this in terms of understanding, how many conversations you're having. So have a good operational, backbone, a good business development plan. Personal brand is quite important as well on LinkedIn to have that. But it's output, you know, depends how much money you've got.
Chris:You know, maybe hire a mentor, hire people around you. But in the 1st year, it's about working bloody hard, sticking to your niche, and, you know, if you don't send out candidates, you don't get interviewed. That sounds really obvious, but you have to make outbound calls. You have to do the activity.
Dean:But the thing about recruitment as well is that it's actually good because it's quite a lot fairly low capital. You buy it, spend 50 quid on company's house, you register your company
Dean:Yeah.
Dean:Yeah. Spend a few, Bob, to consult your accountant. They'll tell you what to do, what not to do, then you get on the phone.
Chris:Yeah. Absolutely. But you I think you've gotta because there's so many recruitment agencies out there as well. You gotta have a a good quality pitch. So you got you gotta you gotta be able to convey and articulate your proposition in a in a succinct way, and, I I help with that as well.
Chris:But, yeah, get yourself out there. Get on the phones. Make it happen.
Dean:So how where would somebody go if they wanted to get some help from Chris?
Chris:Yeah. LinkedIn is is is probably the best place. My website is basemindset.com. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, but LinkedIn is is probably the best place. You see all my all my stuff on there.
Dean:So what's ahead? What does 2025, 2020 6, and onwards look like for Chris?
Chris:Well, I'm loving my doing my, executive work, my advisory work to to my clients and advising them, but I wanna take that a step further. I wanna do more work on stage. I wanna talk my story on TED Talks. I want to, build out a leadership development program, where clients are paying me on a monthly basis as well. And, yeah, I wanna have some equity in some businesses as well.
Chris:So just take it to that next level, really.
Dean:Do you wanna start investing?
Chris:Yeah. Absolutely. Now employ my my my way back financially, I can I can start doing that soon as well? And kind of like there is not a chip on my shoulder that's wrong, but I feel there's an element of kind of like because I lost all that money, I feel like I wanna get that back. So I can relate.
Dean:But yeah, man. I think, if I was listening to your story now, which I have
Dean:been, I would be quite inspired because you've you've shown that it is possible to
Dean:just use an existing because you've you've shown that it is possible to just use an existing skill
Dean:set, use that to springboard into your own business, creating
Dean:a massive degree of freedom, creating massive financial stability for yourself, which obviously, you know, we all know what happened there, but yes, the the proof of concept is there, and you've shown how to bounce back through probably the most difficult time.
Chris:Oh, mate. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Everyone wants to have their 1,000,000,000 in the bank by yesterday, and what I've learned is that, you know, as soon as slow down to speed up, you know, execute things properly, patience is is actually an underrated paradoxical skill. You need to have urgency and drive, but understand what you're really, really, really good at. Focus on that.
Chris:And if you're weak in other areas, find someone else to help you do that. It's really important.
Dean:Agreed. Well, man, thank you for a very open, honest, and broad level conversation. It's been, been great having you on.
Chris:No. Absolute pleasure. Thanks a lot. Cheers, mate. Fuck you.
Chris:Enjoy that.
